The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
Ask Amy x The Keri Croft Show
Amy Nelson isn’t just an attorney and founder of The Riveter—she’s a force of nature. For years, she’s been in the ring with Amazon and the DOJ—and she’s winning. Oh, and did we mention she’s doing all this while raising four young daughters? Now, she’s bringing that same fire to our new monthly call-in show, Ask Amy. She’ll be answering your biggest, boldest questions about pivoting in business—no fluff, no BS, just straight talk for women ready to shake things up. DM the show with your questions and get ready. This is one you can’t afford to miss.
Hey there you beautiful badass. Welcome to the Keri Croft Show. I'm your host, keri Croft, delivering you stories that get you pumped up and feeling like the unstoppable savage that you are. So grab your coffee, put on your game face and let's do this thing. Baby Ready to elevate your self-care game, bosco Beauty Bar is a modern med spa offering everything from cosmetic injectables, lasers and microneedling to medical grade facials and skincare. Conveniently located in Clintonville, grandview, powell and Easton. Making self-care a priority has never been easier. Use code KROFT for $25 off your first visit. Let's get real here. Aging isn't always cute. Wrinkles, things sagging where they didn't before. Do I hate my partner, or is this perimenopause? I've been there and that's why I'm all about Donaldson, from plastic surgery to aesthetics, to functional medicine. They help you love your body and get to know it better. Want to feel like yourself again? Head to DonaldsonHealthcom and, if you're a first-time client, mention the Keri Croft Show for $100 off your first treatment. You're welcome. You're really good at these answers.
Speaker 1:No wonder we're doing Ask Amy. My God, I'm like can I get my notebook out? Well, amy Nelson, we just I mean, we had to just draw you right back in. Here I am, how are you? I'm good. How are you? I would say welcome to the Keri Croft Show, but this is Ask Amy. This is Amy Nelson's show. It's the Keri Cro up, what you were putting down, and so what we're going to do now, we're going to do a spot every month, 30 minutes or less. People can call in, they can DM, they can write us and this is a very highly concentrated, dialed in show about women pivoting in business Men you're welcome.
Speaker 1:You're welcome to come.
Speaker 2:Anyone's welcome. Men can be here, it's fine, but this is just.
Speaker 1:You know the riveter has been. That's what it is right Women pivoting in business. So I'm telling you, when you have her here in the hot seat, you better be ringing in the questions, and we do have a bunch of questions. I will say to start off, Expert in nothing, opinion in everything. Hey, listen that. That's what we're all about here, right? Yep? Question number one All right, okay, how do you know when it's time to make a big pivot in your career or business, versus just pushing through a tough season?
Speaker 2:Ooh, that's a good question. There is no right or wrong answer here, but I think there's kind of two ways to look at it. How long have you had that inkling or that feeling that you want to change? Have you had that inkling or that feeling that you want to change? I think it was Steve Jobs, actually, that said if you wake up more days in a row than not and say I need something different, then it's time. So I think you have to kind of constantly be checking in with yourself Is this what I want, or am I ready to make a pivot? The other way to think about it is far less inspirational and far more tactical, and it's asking yourself not just if you're ready, but can you?
Speaker 2:Everyone always says, like, live your dreams, chase the passion, like that's great, but you can't always do that right, because we have a mortgage or rent or kids, and so if you want to make a big pivot, one of the things to do to figure out if you're ready or if you can is to sit down and map it out. Do I have the time to make the pivot? Do I have the financial resources to make the pivot? If the pivot is to another job, great. What's the salary? Is it commensurate to what I'm making now or am I making more money?
Speaker 2:If I want to start a company, what's my runway my personal financial runway that I can quit my job, not take a salary and wait until I ramp up that new business? Because for most businesses, on day one you're not bringing in the money. And so when I started the Riveter, I left 10 years of a career as a lawyer and at the time my husband and I sat down and we made a spreadsheet and the question for us was how long can we continue to afford full-time childcare and maintain the same standard of living, with me, amy, not making a salary? And I had 19 months and I decided that that was enough of a runway for me to go for it. And I went for it, and I can tell you that at month 16, I had completely replaced my salary. But the fact that I had that runway and also that goal pushed me toward it even more quickly, because I knew I wanted to get there. See, I was actually going to follow up with?
Speaker 1:didn't you do a spreadsheet? You fucking took that ball and you just ran with it. What's the biggest mind shift women need to make before taking a big risk in business?
Speaker 2:And a lot of people might hate this answer you need to recognize that imposter syndrome doesn't even exist anywhere but in your own mind. I feel like we have talked about imposter syndrome so much with women that we think it is a real thing. It's completely made up bullshit, right Like, and I think if we didn't think of such a thing as it existing, we wouldn't even have it. But I think the biggest mindset that women need to have to take a big risk to start a business is to say I'm standing in this space and I can do it Like. It's a very simple thing to do, but for some reason we hold ourselves back and we take fewer risks and we have more questions of like will I fail or can I do this? Then we see that men have so just like, don't. Don't think that way, do not allow yourself to think that way. Whenever I doubt myself and I think you know it's over some idea or fear, I just tell myself I'm not allowed to think that.
Speaker 2:One other thing that I think is really important is that I think sometimes we think we are only allowed to try once and if we fail it's over. But that's not how the world works. Everyone gets to try again and again and again, like no one's kicking you off of life stage. You know there are so many entrepreneurs that failed at their first businesses. Sam Altman, who is, you know, taking open AI on this rocket ship, his first startup failed spectacularly right. And what if then he'd said, okay, I'm done, I can't do this. But we, as women, need to take the same approach. We can fail, we can begin again, it doesn't matter, there are endless chances and there's room for all of us.
Speaker 1:You just answered the third question, which was how do you deal with imposter syndrome when shifting into a new industry or role?
Speaker 2:I mean I think like, if you want to say imposter syndrome exists, or if you feel it, this is my best advice for how to deal with it. Say to yourself what would like a mediocre white man in this role do. Or what would I mean? Pretend you're someone else, like if you have imposter syndrome. Pretend you are the person you feel like, you're, like pretending to be, and how would they approach something? Just do it that way.
Speaker 2:It might sound crazy, but like I came to that after I worked on Wall Street for a decade and I was in these rooms with mostly men and at a certain point I started looking around and I was like these guys don't know anything, or like they don't, like they're not all, they're not all that right, like they don't know any more than I do, but they're just taking up the space. And so, although I felt slightly uncomfortable in the moment, I just decided, like I'm taking up the same space, no one can stop me. And like I honestly think that's like how I ended up pivoting to start a venture, backed business and raising $30 million and doing these things, because I just decided to take up the space. Damn girl. And I'll say something I don't have imposter syndrome, but I do get scared, right, I get scared of saying the wrong thing. Or you know, or I am, you know. I get scared of failing, but it's just like it's not a useful emotion, but don't you?
Speaker 1:think that you, that was a muscle that you built though. So, even like you just saying that you had internal dialogue, you did visual, like you did exercises, you talked yourself through it. So it's not like you're just going to wake up one day and be like, ok, I don't have it anymore, but you have to make it a priority to like think it through. You figure that out.
Speaker 2:I mean you do like. It is kind of like, if you think about it, like you're not going to become stronger if you don't go lift weights Right, like you have to make a decision and do that. And I think for me the practice of getting over these things is a practice of seeing it and framing it differently in my mind. So I used to shake before when I had to public speak and it was my right leg. It would just shake, and it would shake like if I was giving a meat of honor toast or if I was public speaking for work, and it would shake only if I didn't have a podium. It was like this very specific thing where I felt exposed. If I had a podium, I was fine, no big deal.
Speaker 2:And I remember when I started the Riveter I had to get up and give a speech to like the Chamber of Commerce in Seattle and I was like, fuck, I'm going to shake. This is embarrassing. And then I had this moment in my head where I was like you know what? This is my job now, this is part of my job and I either sink or I swim and I better figure it out. And then when I realized that this is part of my job. I never my leg never shook again. I don't even know if it was. I stopped being afraid, but I was like I have to do this. This is my job.
Speaker 1:When you think about who you're speaking in front of, like when there's a bunch of eyes in front of you, of course it's like, oh my God, everyone's looking at me. But you're like looking out there. You're like you're all just normal human beings, they're all just who cares?
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the other thing is, if I realized too, when you're looking out at a sea of people you know most people in this world do let fear stop them from trying things where they could fail, whether that's getting up on a stage and giving a speech, starting a business, going for a promotion, and the thing that most people are looking at you for. When you are the person on the stage or are the person going up for the promotion, they're looking at you and they're thinking I wish I could do that. I wish I could be that brave and like that's. You're providing inspiration to people and that's just not something to be afraid of.
Speaker 1:I don't mean to beat up the mediocre white male out there we afraid of. I don't mean to beat up the mediocre white male out there. We love you, we love you, but it's okay, we can beat you up a little bit, yeah, but working in corporate America and then managing and being the director, every single person I was in meetings with were men in suits, mostly white. They're taking up the same exact space, like look around, compare, pretend.
Speaker 2:Like you said, I love that idea that visual, yeah, I don't know. I remember when you're playing sports as a kid you'd take stock of the other team, right. You look at them, you figure out who they are, what the players are and then figure out how you can contribute and win, and I think that we lose sight of that in the world, but I don't think that we should.
Speaker 1:What is one unconventional strategy for making a bold career move that most people don't?
Speaker 2:talk about. I think an unconventional move for making a big pivot is to spend time in the background, first planning the pivot, but not over plan, but earlier. Like make sure that you are financially set up to do it yourself, plan your first steps and also, I think, added to this something that is unconventional and people are afraid to do Ask everybody you know to help you make that move. Enlist your friends, enlist your colleagues, because when you make the move, it will be bigger and bolder if everyone around you is on your supporting team.
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Speaker 2:Like you don't have to do the thing you did for 10 years. You can change expertise, you can change your jobs, you can change your personal brand. So my answer might be slightly unconventional, but we live in a world where people want authenticity. Like if you look at social media now, right, like gone are the highly stylized reels Like we just want you talking in front of a camera and you know and seeing what your life is like. And I think, to that end, I think there's something really powerful, really vulnerable and really authentic about taking the community you have built on the journey of your personal rebrand.
Speaker 2:And by that I mean tell your community you know I've spent X years doing. You know I've spent X years talking about sewing. You all have been here with me as we did X, y and Z. You know now we're going to learn something new together and explain, like, why you are taking on this new project or talking about this new expertise and bring your people with you, right. I mean we want this, we want, we want change too. As your community, we want to see new things. So we're here for it. If you didn't do that and you just one day, like rebranded yourself with, like you know, say you were you know, sally, who is an expert in criminal litigation, and then, all of a sudden, the next day, your website is like I'm Sally, I make pottery. People would be like what the fuck just happened? Right, and so take people with you and they'll be there for it and you will make new community.
Speaker 1:What are the OK? What are some of the biggest mistakes women make when trying to transition into a new business or career path? We ask for too little.
Speaker 2:If you are trying to get a promotion or get a new job, the first salary offer is not the best they have, right, like it's an opening bid for a negotiation and you need to ask for more. You need to ask for the farm. So I think that's the first thing, right, like we just need to ask for more. And I think that applies like when you are seeking a new job. But it also applies like if you're starting a consulting business or freelancing, like whatever you think you should set your prices at, you should probably double it. I mean, that might be a wild amount, but you know no one's going to pay you more than you ask for. So ask for more, and if it's too much, you can negotiate down. Now I recently sent out a proposal and it was too much for someone, and so we negotiated down. But like to their point, like on the reverse side, my opening bid was not the lowest amount I was willing to do it for, but I was going to ask for as much as I thought I was worth, and then I had the decision of whether I want to lower my rates depending on the project, the person, whatever.
Speaker 2:I have raised a lot of venture capital and men receive 98 percent of venture capital dollars, and I think one of the reasons is that we, as women, just don't ask for as much. So I think that's an important thing. The other thing I'll say about you know what we need to do as women when we're starting businesses or pivoting is, you know, not everybody needs to build a $10 million business. You can build an amazing, you know, cash flowing lifestyle business, and I think more and more people are doing that, but I think that we need to set our expectations and goals higher. One of the reasons I think women raise less venture capital is venture capital investors are looking for a massive return and I think, as women, sometimes we're like shit. I cannot tell this person I'm going to build a hundred million dollar business. Well, yes, you can Right, like there's no, there's no one saying you can't do that. You have to look at things as big as you want them to be or they could be, and then chase that.
Speaker 1:When you started the Riveter and you had that moment with your friend or that person who was like, wait, why don't you scale this? And before that, you weren't even thinking about that, nor were you thinking about venture capital or how can I do that? However, you ended up raising $30 million. So how did you go from that person planting the seed of venture capital like what is this VC you speak of to you actually getting people to give you $30 million? What was in?
Speaker 2:between that. So I did a lot of research and I know that might sound uninteresting or not sexy, but here's the thing we talk ourselves out of doing a lot of things because we're like I don't know how to do it, it's too hard, I can't figure it out. You can figure out anything in the world. I familiarized myself with the type of capital, because VC capital is just another source of capital. It's one that's mythologized in America but it shouldn't be, because it's quite expensive capital, actually in a lot of different ways, because you're giving up your business for it or parts of your business. But I familiarized myself with what it was and then I took stock of the landscape who's raising VC? And at the time I was building co-working spaces and so I looked over co-working space founders and like, once again, it's like putting myself in that room in New York City where I was layering and I was like, not that business that I wanted to build for that investment class, and by that I mean like if I was applying for a you know, an SBA loan, the way I would have told the story of my business would have been the way that you tell it to the SBA, but I was applying for venture capital funding, and so I needed to tell the story of the business that you know that they would want to invest in, and then the last thing that I did was I got the connections that I needed.
Speaker 2:I think this is the piece that we often overlook. You know, you hear stories now that a job will get 10,000 resumes if you're just applying to a random job online. So what's the answer to that? How do you stand out? I don't think it's by writing a better resume. I think it's by finding warm connections, and that is something that anyone in the world can do. You know, I am a kid who grew up in Columbus Ohio my parents are from Columbus Ohio and I ended up, you know, getting a job at a top law firm in New York. And how did I do it? By building the right connections, and you know, here are some ways that I did it.
Speaker 2:With venture capital You'll be surprised, carrie I made a spreadsheet, and in my spreadsheet I identified all of the venture capital investors. I did research and identified all of the VC investors who invested in co working or in real estate or, you know, in the thing I was building. And then I went on LinkedIn to figure out if I had a direct connection to someone who worked at that VC fund. Now, that was very rare for me because I didn't know a lot of people in the VC world. So then what I did is used LinkedIn's power of the second connection and figured out where I had an intermediate connection that could connect me to someone at a VC fund.
Speaker 2:After I'd done all the research and had a list of like 100 investors I wanted to reach out to and I find warm connections to like 75 through a middleman I then send emails to all of the middlemen and ask them for coffee or a phone call. I didn't just send them an email saying, hey, can you connect me to Bob? Because they'd be like why would I connect you to Bob? What's the point? What are we doing here?
Speaker 2:I needed to sell my intermediate connection on my vision to get them to use their social capital and introduce me on my vision. To get them to use their social capital and introduce me and for them to make the right introduction and make it powerful. Yes, that took a ton of time, but I set myself up for the bold move, I set myself up for the pivot so that by the time I was asking for these introductions I had my story. I was spending the time with the intermediate person making them realize. I thought they were special. I understood asking for this introduction was a big thing and I treated it with care and as something precious.
Speaker 2:And the other thing when you do something like that and ask for those connections say you're asking Christy for a connection to Roberta, at the end of the conversation with Christy, if she's willing to introduce you to Roberta, you say to Christy, is there anyone else you think I should meet? And Christy will have like five other people you should meet. She's now sold on your vision and she's going to connect you to everybody else. What I did there with venture capital, you can do with finding a job. You can do with finding any kind of funding. You can do with finding clients right, like if you're starting out as a freelancer or a consultant. You can do it with launching a podcast. And that single piece of finding the right connections I think is the most important one.
Speaker 1:You just hit it spot on in that it is the most important way to navigate yourself through the intangible network of getting where you need to go, but so many people don't understand it.
Speaker 2:This is a recommendation I would give to any young person. Or if you're older and haven't put yourself in this position, put yourself in a position where you are forced to ask people for things and you're going to hear no a lot, because you have to get comfortable with that as a life skill. If you want to take risks and do big things, you have to be so used to hearing no that you're not afraid of it, that you're used to it, that you know how to deal with it, that you truly understand that no today doesn't mean no tomorrow. I did work in politics and I raised money or I door knocked, you know, and I heard no over and over again and a lot of very rude no's, I'll add, and I got used to it and it became a very unscary thing to me. And I think that's super important because when you, when you're learning the art of connection and to do big things, you have to be able to embrace no and not be afraid of it, or otherwise you won't. You won't even try.
Speaker 1:So what this will also teach you a skill in is how do I differentiate myself and how do I win this person over who's probably making $12 an hour might be. You know, like whatever they're doing, they could give a fuck. How do I make them want to give me information? And so that too, you get creative. You make sure your looks are dialed in in terms of like don't be wearing raggedy ass shoes and a stained ass coat, walking in like you just rolled out from like some kind of hangover, yeah.
Speaker 2:And also I think it's really important, in this like very remote world we live in, learn how to do this shit in person. Like you aren't going to build these very deep relationships online. Some you will. I mean you'll meet some people online and become close and build business relationships, but a lot of this is like earned trust from face to face time Right and people getting to know you in person. My good friend, susan McPherson, wrote this amazing book called the Lost Art of Connection and it's so good. She is one of the most brilliant authentic connectors I've ever met in the world and she's just so genuine and this book is. It's a great book to read to kind of get an overview more of what we're talking about Last question of the day.
Speaker 1:All right, if your pivot fails, how do you pick yourself back up and reframe it?
Speaker 2:I always find inspiration in looking at other people's failures. I know that might sound terrible and I'm not looking at, like the person on the corner, their failure. I look at the stories of the greats who failed right, everything from you know the story. You hear that Michael Jordan used to tell he missed half or more than half of his shots right, but he's still the greatest ever, or Kobe, or you know, and so I think you know. Looking at it from that perspective, and then also I mean sit down and make a list, not a spreadsheet, but a list of what you learned, of what you did a great job at, of what you did a really bad job at, and like what you liked and what you didn't like. You know the Riveter.
Speaker 2:We started out by building co-working spaces and I took on a lot of investment. I had a lot of employees and we had a black swan happen in March of 2020 where we were no longer allowed to legally operate our spaces and so that part of my business it failed, and I have since then, really sat down and thought about what I was good at, what I was bad at, what I liked, what I didn't like, and I use that to inform all of my next choices. Like I don't want to manage a team of 130 people ever again. I'm not good at it. I'm good at a lot of other things. I'm not good at it Also. I didn't like it and it's not something I want to learn how to do.
Speaker 2:Does that mean I would never start a company with 100 people? No, but it means if I did, I would start it with a partner who loved operations and people management. So you can take what you learned and apply it to your next endeavor. And again, like always, go back. There's Kobe. There's like. Abraham Lincoln lost every election ever until he became a national politician, and if he had quit after losing the first one, what a loss for the rest of us you are, just you know, packed with inspiration, no bullshit, knowledge per usual.
Speaker 1:And sitting here for this first inaugural ask amy just makes me that much more bullish about the fact that we should be doing this. It's fun, I love it if you're still out there following your girl. Follow me on youtube, spotify, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, ask amy is going to be a monthly drop. It's a hour only. We're eventually going to have a call-in option for you, but until then, dm or email me at kerry, at the kerrycroftshowcom, and ask your questions to Amy and keep moving, baby.
