The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
Chad Underwood on Male Factor Infertility, Mental Health and Modo Yoga
When Chad Underwood and his wife decided to start a family, they never expected infertility to be part of their story — let alone his diagnosis.
After being diagnosed with azospermia (a rare male infertility condition), Chad was left navigating a world that doesn’t talk enough about male infertility — let alone how isolating it can feel.
Add in a global pandemic, the temporary closure of his yoga studio, and a whole lot of grief he wasn’t ready to process… and you’ve got one hell of a journey.
In this episode, Chad gets real about what infertility looks like from the male perspective — the shame, the loss of identity, and the wild experience of choosing a sperm donor.
Chad, your honesty is your superpower! Your story is proof that biology isn’t what makes you a dad. Showing up with your whole heart is.
This one’s for anyone who’s ever had to take a different path to their dream — and found something even more beautiful on the other side.
Watch now and share it with someone who needs to hear this.
Hey there you beautiful badass. Welcome to the Keri Croft Show. I'm your host, keri Croft, delivering you stories that get you pumped up and feeling like the unstoppable savage that you are. So grab your coffee, put on your game face and let's do this thing. Baby Ready to elevate your self-care game? Boscal Beauty Bar is a modern med spa offering everything from cosmetic injectables, lasers and microneedling to medical grade facials and skincare. Conveniently located in Clintonville, grandview, powell and Easton. Making self-care a priority has never been easier. Use code KROFT for $25 off your first visit. Summer's coming in hot, but is your skin summer ready? Fine lines, sun damage, melasma If these are cramping your vibe, the Moxie laser at Donaldson will leave you glowing Nervous about lasering your face. I tried Moxie and it was quick and gentle, perfect for first timers and all skin types. And my results 10 out of 10. And if you're a first timer at Donaldson, mention the Keri Croft Show for $100 off your Moxie treatment. Don't say I've never done anything for you. Chad Underwood, welcome to the Keri Croft Show.
Speaker 2:Thank you, happy to be here.
Speaker 1:I am just. I am honored that you're here.
Speaker 1:Well thank you, not just because it's you and I feel like the universe has been conspiring for us to sit together for a couple years now, like I told you. But then I put out this you know, we're doing this infertility series and I was getting my nails done and it hit me like a ton of bricks where I'm like, okay, I've been so focused on being inclusive when I was having that mental conversation and having the conversation with Kate and internally it's like, okay, same-sex couples check. Okay, women who have are 20 years away check. And it was women, women, women. And all of a sudden I'm like what about the man? So I put that out. You write back rather quickly. Hey, my wife lobbed this to me. I want to come in and I want to talk, yeah, so I just feel like this is such an important conversation and it's it's rare that we sit with a man who is willing to open up about male factor infertility. So thank you for your vulnerability and for being here.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're very welcome. I think it's something that needs to be talked about from every angle, and I'm just happy to be here, I'm happy to share my story.
Speaker 1:So let's start with when you and Carrie, your wife, decided you want to have kids. Walk us down the road of when it was like, okay, the signs are pointing towards my sperm.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean well, we. So we got married in June of 2018. And then we were, you know and this isn't necessarily ancillary, but we were both kind of ready to start having kids. I was 33, I think at this time and we were like, hey, let's start having kids. And so we decided to start trying around Christmas time of that year. So we'd been married for six months. We were going to start trying to get pregnant. There was six months where we were just looking at the calendar and knowing when we were supposed to be having sex and when things were supposed to be working out and they just weren't working out. And it was a pretty quick time frame. I feel like a lot of couples it's years or maybe even a decade that could pass when they finally start to go down the infertility process. But we were really eager to have children.
Speaker 2:That, like we I remember we went to Hawaii and Carrie was like, if we don't get pregnant when we're in Hawaii, like when we come home, I'm going to set up an appointment with an infertility specialist. And so a month later we set up an appointment with Dr Jane up in Westerville and I think we that started like that summer and we started going through all sorts of like tests and, initially, the. I think we that started like that summer and we started going through all sorts of like tests and initially, the very first test, um, like Carrie cycle didn't have, like she didn't have the. It looked like she might be the issue with her for whatever reason. That cycle she didn't have a ton of eggs that she was producing. But then, like, after two more months, the doctor was like no, no, no, no, no, like you're fine, we need to start looking at Chad.
Speaker 2:Um, so then over the next couple of months, like throughout the fall of 2019, um, I was doing like I probably did like seven or eight like sperm checks and eventually it got to the point where they just they they either came back as like trace amounts of sperm or no sperm at all. Um, and then that February was when I had like the final operation. Like we went into, so I went to go see a urologist and go see a specialist, but then so, like February 2020 was when, um, when I had the operation and so they did like a testicular biopsy and then they identified that I had no sperm at all. So I was diagnosed with what's called azuspermia, and it just means I was born without the capability to process sperm or create sperm.
Speaker 1:Because I was going to say sometimes you can go in and that's a different diagnosis, because you have a couple in there they can take out.
Speaker 2:Yes, that was what they were trying to do. He was trying to go in to pull out some sperm, if there were any available, and they ran the tests on it and there were none, and that was tough.
Speaker 1:I was going to say can you take us back to when you heard that, when you're like, wait, there's nothing, there's not one in there. How did that impact you and what did you think? How did you process?
Speaker 2:Well, I guess the immediacy of when I found out I was still under the influence of the anesthesia, so it was kind of like I was in a really big fog so I didn't really like. I was like coming up from being under in the surgery and so Carrie was there with me and I remember her just kind of like breaking down and crying, but I still don't think I was like fully like alert, like I was having the conversation with them, but I was in a fog and then, like I slept for another couple of hours and then we got home and then we actually like had the conversation and that was when, like it really hit me like okay, like in my mind and this isn't how I feel in any way, shape or form, in my mind that was like I'm not going to be a father and I always wanted to be a dad. I like, and I always wanted to be a dad. I love my kids to death. Being a dad is such a big part of my life now, which I'm sure we'll get to, but in that moment it felt like the dream of us being parents was over. The one thing that I do remember very vividly that the urologist said, and it was something that I thought was so important for me to process and I don't think I processed it fully for like a long time.
Speaker 2:A lot of the concern when we started this was like were there factors that I could have? You know, a lot of the factors were like do you spend excessive time in heat? Okay, well, I teach hot yoga. I'm in that hot room, you know, eight 10 hours a week, so I spend a lot of time in a hundred degree room. Have you ever spent a lot of time with, like like electronics on your lap? Well, like when I was in college, I remember sitting with my laptop like on my lap all the time, right, so like that was another factor.
Speaker 2:And then the third one was like do you smoke marijuana? And there was a period of my time where I was smoking a lot of marijuana. So I'm like these three strikes are against me, but what? What he said was like you were one in 10,000. Like there's nothing you could have done that could have changed this outcome for you. Like this is this is you were diagnosed with this. Like this was here from the moment you were born. For you, like this is this is you were diagnosed with this. Like this was here from the moment you were born and that did help me cope. To know that, like, even if there were all these external factors that maybe, like, would have prevented me from having sperm and having my own genetic children, like the end result could never have been changed, because that's just who I am and that's part of my identity.
Speaker 1:So you get hit with this diagnosis which I can imagine on so many fronts was a lot to probably. You probably are still processing.
Speaker 1:I mean that's you know that's it's, it's, that's a big big thing. Um, especially as we discussed and you discussed your intake form just this whole idea of masculinity in our culture and the way that conceiving between, like when guys are having a beer and they're talking and it's like you know, oh, you got the strong swimmers and like penis size, I mean name it like it's a whole bro culture where it's like you know, you're not comfortably and like hey, by the way, I don't make any spirit, like that had to be like a whole thing. But let's go into when you and Carrie realize this door is closed for you guys to naturally conceive. So now we have other doors that we need to look at right, we have the adoption door, we have the donor door, or we have the childless by choice door. Yeah, and how did that conversation come about and who was the antagonist and how did that all go.
Speaker 2:Well, I mean, I'll tell you, we probably went through, we probably looked at all the doors, Um, and you know, even looking back now, it was like funny. I mean I think some of the jokes that we made were like coping mechanisms, but I remember at one point we were at a friend's house Um, they have condos in like the park's edge apartments downtown and we went to this party at the park's edge and we're in like I remember I can't remember who said the joke, or whatever but it was like, well, I mean like this could just, like we could just live here forever, Like we could just live in this building and like, if we're not going to have kids, like let's, let's move, let's live the cosmopolitan Columbus life and live in the high rise, and that's going to be what we do. And that was like one thing that we talked about. But I think, ultimately, what it came down to is like I still remember when Carrie and I were on our second date, and from the time of our second date we knew like we were meant to be together and like one of the earliest conversations that we had was that we both wanted to be parents, and like we wanted to have a family and I think any time we like started to talk about being the cool aunt and uncle because we had some nieces and nephews, or like let's live the high rise life and just not worry about it. Like you know, let's move out of our suburban home and back into the city. That wasn't going to give us the life that we wanted and like the fulfillment. And so then we started to talk about other avenues Once we got to the point where I was diagnosed with the azuspermia and we went to like we kept talking with Dr Jane and, like figuring out how we were going to do this.
Speaker 2:It was really a function of like how is this going to look? And there is the donor route, and I remember there was a conversation and Carrie reminded me of this a couple days ago that, like she was adamant for a period of time that, like if I had to do a sperm domer, that she was going to do an egg donor and that that even if she carried the baby, like she wanted it to be an egg donor because she felt so guilty about me not being able to have my genetic children that she was willing to forego the children being her genetic children. And I was like you're crazy, Absolutely not. Like we're not, like that's not an option, that's not on the table.
Speaker 2:But we had those conversations. I was like no, like our children should at least half be genetically ours. Like that, like I wanted that so much for her. And so then we started going down the sperm donor route and looking into it. And that was an experience in and of itself which, like on some levels, looking back on, was like kind of interesting, Like it's fascinating to think about, but in the moment, like shopping for sperm donors, was like so incredibly heartbreaking.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, you know, you think about just Tinder or Hinge for dating.
Speaker 2:Which is how Karen and I met. We met on Tinder. But then you take it like three steps further.
Speaker 1:You're like never thought I would be looking for someone who looks similar to me, that has the same height, the same you know to carry my child. I mean, it's definitely not something that anybody would ever think they would be experiencing, but such is life. Yeah, I mean right.
Speaker 2:I mean there's certain things that you can control or certain things that you can't control and, like, I can't control the fact that I can't produce sperm, but we can control how we react to the circumstances that we were under. But we can control how we react to the circumstances that we were under and I think that, in the grand scheme of things, as heartbreaking as all of it was, we still knew what the end goal was and we were both willing to work together to get to this point where we have our you know, our two children. But like the sperm donor piece was, so was just like it was really it was tough for both of us, but it's really weird, like feeling like you're shopping on Amazon for yourself, like that's, I mean it's like and the sperm bank stuff, like for anybody out there who hasn't like been through this it's, I mean it's wild because there's like 20 or so throughout the country and Dr Jane presents you with this list of like and his first recommendation is, just so you know, like, don't go with a sperm bank from like Ohio. And at first you're like okay, like cool, like whatever he's like no, no, no. Like you don't understand, like you don't want your kid being at like the high school prom and their date looks a lot like your kid because it's actually the same sperm donor. So he's like pick a random sperm bank from like wherever. So I think ours is like Washington or California or something like that.
Speaker 2:And so you start shopping, you know, you start filtering out. Like you know somebody who's between five, 11 and six, one, brown hair, german and Scottish descent. Like you can go as far down as like uh, education level, so like I have a, I have a law degree, so it's like you can say post postgraduate degrees, like there's so many different little factors that you can do. And then it just pumps out like seven people and all you see are there like like childhood photos and this kid I'll never forget it Like when I was a kid I was a huge Michael Jordan fan, as like I'm pretty sure everybody around my age was, and this kid kid looked, this four-year-old looked exactly like me and he was wearing a Chicago Bulls jersey.
Speaker 2:And so then we open up the, we open up the like the, the form, and you you can see like hobbies or whatever he's into, and he was like gave up a life of like law, he was a lawyer, gave up a life of law and like to become an artist. So he has like this creative side and then in his spare time, like loved practicing yoga and it was like that's the guy, like wherever he is, like that's, that's perfect, like it's the it's as close to me as we're going to get. And when you look at Brady, I mean he looks a lot like me, even though he's not genetically my child.
Speaker 1:Can you think back like when was your, I think, lowest, lowest point with all of this?
Speaker 2:mentally, and this is less. I mean, this is still like an infertility conversation, but it's a little bit like ancillary world stuff, I mean. So my operation for the testicular biopsy was February 28th of 2020. And then you know, owning a business that's primarily dependent on people coming into your doors and practicing in the heat with the hot yoga studio, march 14th or 15th we had to shut the studio down and we didn't know when we'd reopen. So, within the span of two weeks, I get you know this news that I think I'm never going to become a father.
Speaker 2:And then, all of a sudden, I think, like, like, are we going to be able to pay our rent? Like, are we going to have to file bankruptcy? Like, what's like I it seems so silly now to think about, but in that moment, like it was true terror and fear, like I had no idea what was about to happen, and so that, like spring summer was like just mentally, just not a good place. I was throwing myself into teaching, like the online streaming yoga classes, just as many as I could possibly do. I was throwing myself into, like working on the business and trying to come up with like plans for what would happen if we wouldn't reopen, like I just just remember trying to deflect and not thinking about anything having to do with home because I was so devastated in what was going on. I think my tendency is when, rather than process grief immediately, I tend to throw myself into something else and deflect and then eventually it hits you really hard.
Speaker 2:And that summer I I just I remember there was a day where I just remember a day where we were sitting at home and probably like drinking wine on the couch and it was like right about when we did the sperm donor thing and it was just not a good situation. I remember breaking down, I wasn't sleeping, I was waking up in the middle of the night and wouldn't be able to go back to sleep for like three hours at a time. Just all of the fear and anxiety and stress that I was under was catching up to me. And then it became a function of like okay, we really need to talk about this and start processing it and start moving through it. But it didn't happen immediately.
Speaker 2:It was probably another three to four months until I started going to see a therapist and starting to work through, kind of like, how it was really impacting me rather than deflecting it. And that was really hard on Carrie too, because I think that it's so hard when you're in it with someone, it's hard to talk to that someone and work through the problem together without talking to somebody else first. And I was so scared to talk to anybody about what I was going through, let alone somebody who was close to me, like a friend or a confidant, that the only way that I was able to work through the trauma that I had gone through was by talking to this outside therapist that I had never met me before in my life and that I found that to be a really productive way to work through the struggles that I was having.
Speaker 1:Aside from Carrie and this therapist, who did you lean on in your support system? Anyone? Did you share this with anyone? So?
Speaker 2:I did. Luckily, I have an amazing team at Modo and they were kind of they were knowing what I was going through because I had to. Before I had had my big operation in February, I had had to stop teaching in the heat because they thought that maybe, like hey, if I remove myself from the heat for a couple of months, then maybe that would enable my sperm to get going. It turns out that wasn't the case, um, but so I had, like all my team members and and the teachers and even some students at moto were reaching out, like hey, you're not on the schedule, like what's going on? Is everything okay? So I did have to kind of rely on some people there, like especially our studio manager, leanne, and some of our like big teachers, and I remember I talked about it in a staff meeting. So the Modo community really helped me to process and that community in general is like we're a pretty emotional community. We're. We're all about being together and kind of helping push through like tough times for everybody, um, and also using yoga as like a stress coping mechanism and a and a, you know, a way to work through past traumas and self-healing. You know the moto community, I would say, especially our studio manager Leanne, like she was a confidant, um, but as far as like anybody else, not really.
Speaker 2:It was kind of tough for me because I think in some ways, like our parents' tendencies are ingrained in us and so I know that my mom had me when she was 40 and my mom had eight miscarriages, and so I remember this is even well before like the infertility stuff started. I remember my mom telling me that well, like, we just didn't talk about it, like and this is back in the seventies and eighties Like I just never talked to anybody about this. I'm like, mom, you went through eight miscarriages and never talked to anybody about this. And so I think when I was going, starting to go through this process, I like I was like, well, I have to internalize it as well. Because in my mind I was thinking, well, that's like, that's what my mom did, like that was like my experience with infertility.
Speaker 2:But once I started, you know, carrie and I started making that commitment to try to work through this stuff, both together and with our own therapists, because we had our own individual therapists and then we had a couple therapy sessions together.
Speaker 2:Once that happened, we started getting more comfortable talking with people about this, and then you started realizing just how many other people were going through what you are, um, and I do.
Speaker 2:I now that this kickstart kind of jogs some of my memory too like we did have a couple, um, one of our dearest friends. They were kind of like our confidants because they were the ones that now this is clicking back in my mind they were the ones that recommended us to Dr Jane. So there was one couple friend of ours that had gone through infertility and they had used Dr Jane to have their two children, and so that kind of like led us to go to him in the in the first place. And then it was like once we started, once people started finding out and were aware that we had our journey, then we became those confidants for other people that were on their journeys, and so it is this kind of like beautiful, like community in and of itself of people that have gone through this together that we can all, once you start to have the conversations, you realize just how many other couples are being impacted by this.
Speaker 1:It's the I think it's the beauty of transparency with anything. When you're fully open and transparent about something, it is such an attractor to everyone. And it's amazing the things that will come. Just this show alone, like I can't wait's amazing. The things that will come, just just the show alone, like I can't wait to see the males that kind of come around. I hope so. Oh, absolutely, there's no doubt. Yeah, and it was. I mean, what was that like, though, with your bros? Like having be, like, you know, hanging out watching golf? Like hey, dude, how do people support you today? Like hey dude, like how?
Speaker 2:how did that go? There's a mental exercise of like do I need to correct this person or do I not need to correct this person. Like if it's somebody who I just met, I might never see them again. Like I'm not going to spend the time of like trying to correct that person because I don't know if I'm ever going to see them again.
Speaker 1:They don't necessarily need to know, but if you're talking about, if somebody, somebody asks like, says something about in general, just about like whatever, like I remember.
Speaker 2:So one one experience was and I play a lot of golf and I I remember, uh, when carrie was pregnant the first time we were walking down the fairways and I've heard this hundreds and hundreds of times from people where it's like, oh yeah, carrie's pregnant, congrats on the sex, like okay, cool, okay, cool, Like got it Okay. I remember, like it was a good buddy of mine, he said that and I had to go through this exercise. I'm like this is somebody that I know, Not a lot of time with, but somebody that I see regularly. This is somebody that's going to, that knows my wife, knows, will know my family, Like I need to make. Take this to be the moment and be like hey, just like. So you know, that's actually not how this worked. I can't have my own children and sometimes you see the reaction and they're like like their jaws drop.
Speaker 2:But I think that's important for people to realize that, even just like something seemingly innocent, as like hey, that's so great, Congrats on the sex, which I think I don't really love that comment anyways, but like that's what people do and that's what people say. That can be incredibly hurtful for people to hear or whatever it might be, like hey, yeah, like great. Like let's do our masculine comments about whatever it is, and it's like, even though I might be sitting here as somebody who likes to golf and likes to go out and drink beers, like those comments can be incredibly hurtful to me. Or even something as simple as and and you know, I see this happen both with men and especially like a lot of older ladies who meet my child and they're like, oh my God, he looks just like you and it's like, well, yeah, he does.
Speaker 2:But that isn't that comment alone, even though that's the first thing that somebody says is like a twist of the knife in my belly every time I hear that. And so then I go through the mental exercise again like do I correct this person? Do I not correct this person? Like and part of that is also my own preservation of my own mental state because, like some people like I just don't want to correct them, because I don't want to then have to explain it and go through the story and like it becomes like reliving these like little nightmares all the time. But then some people like need to know, because they're going to be in my life for extended periods of time. So every single time there's a conversation that could potentially come about of it, it is like rehashing those nightmares.
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Speaker 2:We definitely talked about it. We were also and I'll be the first to say, like we were incredibly fortunate in that Carrie's job covered IVF. So for us, when it started being a function of like even a financial decision which is like incredibly fucked up that we even have to think about it that way but like when we started looking at like the financials of doing adoption versus the financials for us individually of doing IVF number one IVF at least gave Carrie the opportunity to carry her own child and all that sort of stuff. But then also like it was covered by insurance. So and like again, I'll be the first to say like we are incredibly thankful to DSW or designer brands that like they even offered that for their employees. But that's kind of like IVF was always more preferable. Adoption was probably on the table, but we were like that was like the next step. It was like if IVF doesn't work, then we'll go down that road.
Speaker 1:I guess what would you say to people out there who are supporting someone who's going through something like this, knowing that it is super sensitive, knowing that a very benign comment can really twist a night that you wouldn't even intend, how can someone best support someone going through this type of journey?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean I think it is a tough question because I don't fault people for just you know, like the offhanded comment, like oh my God, he looks so like you, like that is a very natural thing to want to say, and I I don't, even, cause I I'm sure that before I went through this I said that to my friends' kids or you know, we're around people that said that and it never even registered in my mind. But I think it's important for reframing just even if you don't know if a person's going through it, reframing my own mindset and like I'm never going to say those things again, Like those aren't comments that I'm going to make to people, and if people can be aware of just how many individuals are going through these journeys, even if it's an offhanded comment or something that you've said for generations, like it might be something that needs to change and maybe we reframe how we have those conversations and that's not easy to do. I will say that, like if you're, if you're aware that somebody that in your life is going through this journey, the biggest thing that I can say is just be supportive. I mean, there are so many ask questions because the more we can talk about it, the more we can cope and process it and the more we feel like people are understanding and respectful of what it is that we're going through. Like the end goal is to have this beautiful thing, this beautiful child, and that's what we ultimately wanted, and we wanted people and to have conversations with people that wanted to support us in that goal.
Speaker 2:If people don't want to talk about it, that's okay too, but I think it's just important to support folks that you know they're going through this journey, because you know every person's going to process it and go through it in their own way. But even if it's just a function of like I'm just going to come over and hang out with you for a night, we don't have to talk about anything. We can watch the football game or we can go for a walk and we can talk about whatever. Or for me, it was like let me find people that I know that I can go spend nine holes of golf with or go take a yoga class with, and just people that I felt good being around, that were helping me get through it. Even if it wasn't a function of like we're actually going to sit down and talk about it, because sometimes that's not what I wanted to do.
Speaker 1:What's the plan for transparency with the kids?
Speaker 2:We're already talking about it. One of the things that we so, whenever you're going through this and, like Dr Jane, part of the process with him is you have to have at least one conversation before you go through this journey. You have to have a conversation with the therapist, and one of the things that the therapist that we met with recommended not like steadfast, you have to do this but was that start talking to your children about this as early as possible, like from the moment that they can talk, start talking to them. And she, I remember she threw us like some books that like talked about being a donor baby. You know all that sort of stuff and we didn't buy those.
Speaker 2:But like from early on, as soon as Brady, our first kid, um, started talking, we started having the conversation with him. That you know, hey, there's four people. You know most people have a mommy and daddy that helped make their kids. And for you there were four people that were involved. There was mommy mommy brought her belly. Daddy, daddy brought his heart, doctor, doctor brought his mind. And the donor the donor brought the missing piece. And if you sit down with Brady and you say Brady, hey, how many people helped make you? And he'll say four and he'll say mommy, daddy, doctor, donor, and it is like the cutest way that he says it no-transcript, but for us we decided to leave it open. So when he turns 18, that's going to be an opportunity where he can reach out to his donor if he wants. He has to be the one to initiate that, and then that'll probably make me go through a whole nother set of emotions and trauma and processing at that point, if he chooses to do that, but that's okay.
Speaker 1:so yeah, those conversations are already happening as he grows and your love for him grows as it does, how does that change the internal wrestling match that you have inside of, like, oh I'm not the biological father, but I love this child so much does? Do you feel like that wrestling match you're getting, it's getting easier?
Speaker 2:Well, in my mind I'm thinking of the fact that our son is not sleeping through the night right now and screaming in the middle of the night. So I'm like, yeah, you're not my child, um, but you know, that's my first reaction. Um, but no, I mean I think there's always an internal wrestling match that's going on. One thing that I've come to understand is that, like, parenthood can mean a lot of things. There are a lot of genetic parents out there that aren't involved in their children's lives at all and if you spend any significant amount of time with myself and my kids, like those kids, like I, I there's, there's no part of me that doesn't feel like their father.
Speaker 2:And just because they might not genetically be mine, like, I love those two and sometimes the three-year-old is, is a, is a, is a. He's difficult to love sometimes, but, like you know, I mean I look at those two and like we are a family and I will do anything for the rest of my life to protect those two and to care for them and to provide for them. And just because I went through this journey I think in some ways it probably with Carrie and I the fact that we went through this journey together makes it mean that much more to be parents and to have these special moments with our kids. It's more when the like the twist of the knife moments happen. I don't think of it like 98 percent of the time, but those two percent of the time that you do. Yeah, it is hard, but I just have to remind myself like just because they might not genetically be mine doesn't mean that they're not my children.
Speaker 2:And yeah, that's kind of how I try to remember that there's a lot of different paths to parenthood. You have to accept that everybody's journey to parenthood is different and mine just looked a little bit different than some. I wouldn't even say most at this point, who knows. It doesn't change the fact that those are my kids or our kids. I know Carrie's not here, but I'm acting as if she was.
Speaker 1:Well, I was going to say, if she ever wanted to come back with you, I do threesomes in here. You know, very clean threesomes. Anything that we've forgotten, that you're going to be like if you leave here, anything about the journey that we haven't touched on, that you feel.
Speaker 2:That, especially with males who have infertility issues, with male males who have infertility issues, the emotional trauma that that takes on the partner as well. It's such a fast first of all, like pregnancy and giving birth is like such this incredibly traumatic but beautiful event, like for Carrie right, like she goes through nine months of her body feeling like crap. But it's not just the nine months, it's also the six months of shots that we had to administer beforehand and like I had to look at that and be like if I wasn't the way that I was, she wouldn't have to be doing this. So that was part of the processing for me. But then also recognizing that like she's going through her own journey with this because she's having to do these shots and I'm having to put a three inch long needle in my wife's butt every night and if I'm out of town or I like there was a period where I was traveling for work then she was either having to self-administer or have friends come over and do this. And then also her emotional processing, the fact that, like her, her children weren't going to be genetically mine as well. Like it's a separate emotional journey that we were taking on in different like in different wavelengths.
Speaker 2:One of the things that I remember big time was like when she and we talked about this a lot this isn't necessarily even an infertility journey, but even more just like a pregnancy journey is like her life got rocked the moment she got, like really even before we got pregnant, because she stopped drinking.
Speaker 2:She, you know, was trying to eat clean for the baby and like then, all of a sudden, especially with the shots, like all the hormonal changes that she was going through, like even though I might've been emotionally going through this, I could still go out with my friends and have beers, I was still going out to play golf, I was still being able to do all the things that I had done until the baby came.
Speaker 2:And so, like there's probably this year long process in between when, like, her world got rocked and my world got rocked. So we were both going through this like traumatic journey together but separate, and that made for some really difficult and rocky situations that I hope she would say that I processed a lot better the second time than I did the first time around, because I'll be the first to say that I probably wasn't the best partner the first time around when we were going through all this, partially because I think I was deflecting, I was like diving into my business, I was like trying to do anything that I could to stop processing this. There were some really difficult moments as a relationship that we went through, both infertility wise and also pregnancy wise, before we had our kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I think it is important for everyone to know. You know if you're going through infertility in your marriage. We know what you're going through in terms of it's not going to be what you're sold before you get. You know, walking down the aisle and everything's a hunky dory and that's okay. It's part going to be what you're sold before you get. You know, walking down the aisle and everything's hunky dory and that's OK, it's part of in good times and in bad and sickness and in health.
Speaker 1:I think people are just as trepidatious to talk about their marital issues, if not more than even infertility. I mean, god forbid you tell anyone that you're having marital problems because everyone thinks you're great. No, they don't. Like we all see it, we all understand it's part of the process. And if you're going through those rocky times, I mean you are going to process things differently, especially if you are of a different gender.
Speaker 1:Sorry, like we process things different and like what you just explained, your wife is going through all of these wild changes that you, as a male, you just have a seat with your popcorn going. What the fuck is happening, right, and so that's just just owning that and maybe trying to understand the other side a little bit, with a little more compassion, you know, because we do, like a lot of us infertility girlies will go hard in the pain on our spouses, like all he has to do is put it in a cup and all he has to do is perform this, like that's what you hear, right, but the man is going through his own thing, it's. It's. You just have to like give grace at a time where you're going through like the craziest storm ever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, and even, and even situations like from the male perspective, I mean. So, yeah, you asked that question about dark times and I like there's so many that it's almost like hard to process it. But like so that act of like ejaculating into a cup is so difficult to process because, as you're doing it, you're like why the fuck am I doing this? Why do I have to do this? Why all of my friends are getting their wives pregnant, no problem whatsoever. I remember there was a really dark conversation where one of our family members they were like afraid to tell us that they had gotten pregnant because they knew what we were going through and they had just started trying in the first month they got pregnant. And I remember, when they told them, like all four of us were like crying by the end of the conversation, cause like they had this moment of like immense joy and we had this moment of like immense joy and we had this moment of immense sadness and then we kind of took that joy away from them because we were so sad about like that. But like so then you know, you have situations like that where you hear these stories about somebody getting pregnant immediately, immediately, immediately. And then I'm sitting here jacking off into a cup and taking it to the uh, to the, the facility for like processing, and then I have this traumatic expense event that I talked about in the intake form, where, like the first time I ejaculate into the cup I was like this is it Like this is it? I know there's sperm in there, like we are done. So I screw the lid on, I put it in the bag, I take it to the clinic and I open up the bag and I must not have screwed it on tight enough and it just like went everywhere in the bag. And I remember in that moment just feeling like you are such a fuck up. Like that was it. Like you were set, you were good.
Speaker 2:Turns out I wasn't good, but like I remember leaving that, like having to walk out with like another cup I was going to have to go home and go do it again and like bring it back. And I just remember feeling like so broken. And so then I was like, well, I'm never going to go do that again, like I'm never going to like jack off at home into a cup, and so like they're like, well, you can just do it here at the facility, so even better. So it's like, oh cool, all right, cool, dr Jane. So you go into Dr Jane's office and they have an ejaculation room and there's like a bunch of porno mags on the floor and I'm like, and you know, they're Dr.
Speaker 1:Jane's, like last year's issues.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm like. What the hell Like is this? 1988?. Like you can pull something up on your phone at this point, like it was just it just the whole process and blood tests, and like I mean Carrie and I were so desensitized by needles by the end of all this because we were just both getting poked and prodded like the entire time, whether it be her with her shots or me like with my blood work. I mean it was like we were just going in all the time for all this stuff.
Speaker 1:How did Carrie handle hearing that you had, you know, fumbled a ball on that sample and it was all over the bag? How do you call her? So, honey, listen, love you a lot. Yeah, I mean, I have some news.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean mean I remember that. I actually do remember calling her. It was I was on the you're on the way home or was when she got home, uh, that night and um from work or whatever and I do remember like she could tell how visibly upset I was by what had happened, that like she didn't really she was up, like she was more like supporting me because like it was clear that I was like completely broken at that point, like I. That was. That was probably the darkest, even like going back to thinking about what we were talking about, like that was probably the moment where I was like fuck, like um, like I don't know if I can do this, um, and everybody has one of those like rock bottom moments, and for me that was it when I was like I'm like I don't know if I can do this, and everybody has one of those like rock bottom moments, and for me that was it when I was like yeah, this is it, and then you just go straight to the bottom.
Speaker 2:But I think one thing to note with that and everything is that one of the things when I talk about like in my yoga classes is that like life is full of peaks and valleys, and there are always lows and there are always highs, but we have to do what best we can to manage and try to stay in the in the balance. Um, if you're at the darkest of darks, life will come back to balance. If you're at the peak, it's not always going to stay there, it will come back down. So, just trying to rely on people that you care about, have conversations that matter, do things that you love Like for me, it's golf and practicing yoga, like those are the two things that I love to do, making sure that I'm doing a good job to take care of myself so I can take care of the other people too.
Speaker 2:Um, in my life that I love and you know that's that applies everywhere, that doesn't just apply through this, but you know that was a low. But, like you know, took the kids to Disney last week. You know I took the kids to.
Speaker 2:Disney last week. That was the high. You know like watching Brady get so excited about meeting Mickey Mouse. It was like this is why we did this, this is the payoff, and every day there's moments like that.
Speaker 1:How important has yoga been in your healing and your journey.
Speaker 2:Really it's interesting because it's probably shifted. Whereas, like, relying on the physical practice of yoga for so long was so important for me, now it's a function of like time. Like I've made the commitment that I'm going to be a father first, so I'm not at the studios as much, I'm not like I'm, you know, when it comes down to 5 o''clock, like I'm home and I'm with the kids and I'm there for bedtime. I, while I might not get to personally practice as much, that doesn't mean I'm not practicing. It's turned into a lot of like self-practice at home. It's turned into a lot of like sleep meditations, because sleep has become a challenge uh, both getting to sleep and like just getting enough sleep in general. So putting on sleep meditation, meditations before I go to bed to help me just calm down and go to sleep. But I try to practice twice a week. It doesn't always happen, but at least I get to teach and in some ways the teaching has become like the yoga for me, you know, even though I'm not practicing when I teach.
Speaker 2:But it is incredibly therapeutic because either practicing or teaching, because you know, if you're practicing you get to move your body, you get to cleanse, you get to be alone with your thoughts for an hour, which we never really get to do Um and in our studios like no phones, so no distractions, it's just you, your mat and your breath for 60 minutes, which is wonderful, and it's a way to detach from everything that you've got going on, like everything that you had coming into that room is still going to be there when you walk out, but maybe you just feel a little bit better when you walk out, a little bit lighter, and then you know, when I'm teaching we always set intentions as instructors at the beginning of class and usually my intention is going to be something that I'm working through. So it helps me to like mentally process what I'm going through in my own life and then I share that with my students and hopefully it lands with a few of them and you know we can connect on that after class.
Speaker 1:Well, I was at Moda recently. I'm embarrassed to say that was my first time. But, I was there. I loved it. I love the space, I love the energy. I highly recommend it. The ones on Dublin Road, yep, and then the new ones in Clintonville on High Street yes.
Speaker 2:Just just south of Graceland Shopping Center.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you haven't heard of Modo yet and you love yoga, I highly recommend getting your arse and your mat to Modo. Whether Chad's teaching or not, I can't remember the, what's the the name? What's the name of your studio manager in Dublin Road, leanne? So I think Leanne taught and she was lovely.
Speaker 1:Chad, I cannot thank you enough for being here, and sharing your story and I know there are so many men out there that are kind of breathing a little sigh of relief right now like I'm not alone. So it's huge and it was nice to finally lock eyes with you. Yeah, I'm going to take one of your classes soon, please do.
Speaker 2:You can bet on that, yeah, and I mean, look, if there are men out there that even want to connect. I know you have my Instagram. I don't know if you're gonna post or whatever, but like I'm open to talking about this and I've helped a lot of my friends through this and like, if you're struggling, like know that that's okay and know that you can reach out to somebody, even if it's me. Like if it's me, great. If it's not me, that's fine too. But like doors open, DMs are open, Like, feel free to reach out to me too.
Speaker 1:I love that and if you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, keep moving baby.
