The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
Jami Crist on Pregnancy Loss, Grief at Work & Finding Purpose After Heartbreak
Jami Crist has lived through the kind of heartbreak most people can’t imagine — and somehow, she’s turned it into her superpower.
After four pregnancy losses — including a termination at 17 weeks, miscarriages, and a traumatic loss at home — Jami realized there was just a gapping hole when it came to pregnancy loss support.
In this episode, Jami shares her full story — from being adopted by her aunt at age five, to the patterns of instability that shaped her approach to motherhood, to the painful, relentless losses that nearly broke her.
But what she’s built out of the wreckage is extraordinary.
She co-authored The Losses We Keep, an anthology of stories from women who’ve walked the same path — giving voice to the grief no one knows how to talk about.
We also get into:
⚡️ What it’s really like to parent after loss
⚡️ The pressure to “bounce back” at work
⚡️ Why most companies still don’t know how to support employees through miscarriage or stillbirth
⚡️ And what Jami wants every manager, friend, and family member to know
This one is about loss — yes.
But it’s also about legacy.
And the power of saying, “Me too,” when it matters most.
🎙️ Share this episode it with someone who’s ready to feel seen.
#TheKeriCroftShow #PregnancyLossAwareness #TheLossesWeKeep #InfertilitySeries #StillbirthAwareness #1in4 #WomensHealth #MotherhoodAfterLoss #SayTheThing #YouAreNotAlone #WorkplaceSupport #JamiCrist #GriefSupport
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Speaker 1:Ready to elevate your self-care game? Boscal Beauty Bar is a modern med spa offering everything from cosmetic injectables, lasers and microneedling to medical-grade facials and skin care, conveniently located in Clintonville, grandview, powell and Easton. Making self-care a priority has never been easier. Use code KROFT for $25 off your first visit. Summer's coming in hot, but is your skin summer ready? Fine lines, sun damage, melasma If these are cramping your vibe, the Moxie laser at Donaldson will leave you glowing Nervous about lasering your face. I tried Moxie and it was quick and gentle, perfect for first timers and all skin types. And my results 10 out of 10. And if you're a first timer at Donaldson, mention the Keri Croft Show for $100 off your Moxie treatment. Don't say I've never done anything for you. Jamie Crist, welcome to the Keri Croft Show. I'm so happy to be here. We've locked eyes now in the flesh, in the flesh. Welcome to the Keri Groff Show.
Speaker 2:I'm so happy to be here.
Speaker 1:We've locked eyes now in the flesh In the flesh, not through the DMs, no, we are here. And just quick background for all the listeners out there On how you and I connected through this huge universe. Isn't that wild, hilary Phelps?
Speaker 2:I think Regan Regan was the one who was like you need to meet Keri, and I just started following one who was like you need to meet Carrie, and then I just like started following you and and like was like hi, I'm Jamie. Reagan told me I should connect with you.
Speaker 1:Okay, so let's, let's let's rewind for Reagan, the ultimate connector. So you're right, reagan connected me with Hillary Phelps, yes, but I also connected Reagan. Yeah, okay, so this is like the whole thing. So it's all about reagan, it's all about you, it's not about me today, listen, reagan. We figured a way to make it about you. Already thank you so much for the connection. So you and I have been bonding and kind of rooting for each other via the gram.
Speaker 1:So for people who say you can't form true connections on the internet, I disagree because I felt it with you and then I really will say when I saw you cause you never know, like, what the energy is going to read when you meet somebody in the flesh yes and the minute. So. So Jamie and I, we all had dinner last night and we met at the Juneto, but I was going up the elevator and she was walking in the elevator and she turns around. There I was. The moment I met you in the flesh I this like very cool laid-back energy where I was like I'm gonna really like her and then, as we sat together when I felt your vulnerability but then your strength and just how you kind of sit back and I don't know.
Speaker 1:I really I'm feeling it okay.
Speaker 2:I it's so interesting when we were sitting down with dinner because obviously I've known Reagan for so long and then the other ladies that joined us. But like I'm like dinner, because obviously I've known Reagan for so long and then the other ladies that joined us, but like I'm like I feel like I've known you for years and there's a couple of women on through Instagram, that same feeling like I've only met them maybe once in person or just met them through Instagram and I'm like God, I feel like I've known you for years and it's just so special and to have that connection with somebody like we were talking about, like surrounding yourself with good people. I feel so blessed to have like to come to Columbus and be at dinner with four other women who just I vibe with and who uplift me and just hearing, and like I'm like holy shit, like this is so special and I feel like some people never get that in their lives. But I'm like I feel so fortunate to be part of this table and yeah, it's just what, like unlocking yesterday.
Speaker 1:I was like I just feel like I've known you forever well and I and I, when we started to kind of get into your upbringing too, I think I also felt this like real kinship with you. I was like wait, that's where I saw a little girl in you, where I was like holy shit, like it does remind you that everyone has such a story, like it's like your story and like for me, having a tumultuous background with a divorce I mean it changes you, it creates a fault line in you. But you you had an alcoholic mom. You end up getting adopted by your aunt. So just give a little background on that, because you know you started. You know, when you were a little wee girl the universe was like the seas are going to be a little rough here yeah, and growing up you just don't realize how much you are going through at that time.
Speaker 2:And then when I look back, when people are like, wow, you've been through a lot, I'm like, did I? Because when I was growing up, like, I had my aunt and I played sports and I had an amazing community of people and coaches and teammates and you know so, yeah, so growing up, my, my mom was 29. My dad was 56. My dad was previously married, had four children who were basically the same age as my mom. So we like to keep it interesting in our family and you know, my dad had a heart attack at 50, or I guess he was at 60 at this point and he was an alcoholic as well. And so my mom you know young mom at the time and you know there was probably some abuse, abusive relationship that I realized later on in life about my mom and my dad. But, um, my aunt and my mom were best of friends, they were sisters, and I think my aunt was just like Lori, like we need to do something here. Jamie's not in a good place here with you. You're not in a good place for yourself, let me help. And I just my aunt is my guardian angel. I, because I really do think if I would have continued that life with my mom, I would ended up in child services, um, and probably taken away from my mom. You know, now reflecting back, there was just a lot of trauma. My mom went through that. I still don't know to this day that maybe have caused her to be an alcoholic, but she just didn't know how to get help. And so, yeah, when I was about five years old, my aunt took legal custody of me, with her and her husband, and at the same month she signed the paperwork. She just had her first son, and so her son and I were about almost six years apart. And then she had her daughter, jenna, so me and her were 12 years apart.
Speaker 2:So it's just funny, that dynamic, like I was the only child but then became the oldest child and and then when I was about 14, 15, my, we found out my uncle was cheating on my aunt. And it's so crazy because I I don't you grow it like growing up I kind of sensed something was off and and I mean, I grew up in a very small town, so everybody knew everybody's business and my aunt owned a flower business at the time she had to sell it, she had to go find a corporate job to get benefits and just saw, just saw so much what happened to her to become a single mom. And this relationship to my uncle, who was like a dad to me, like I completely lost trust in him and just I just couldn't wait to get out. And at the same time, I still had a very good relationship with my mom through the years.
Speaker 2:She remarried um when I was about 16 at the time, and my stepdad and her are complete opposites. Like Like he didn't drink, he, you know, worked for UPS for 20, 25 years, retired from there, you know, he, they were such a good balance and but I had my life in Delaware and I didn't want to like have to move to Buffalo with them and, you know, start over and I was just really keen on getting out. I just I just wanted to live my own life and get out and just be on my own. But realizing with my mom's relationship, like I knew she was always there and we had something special, but I just always felt like I had to be the adult.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Do you remember when you were five, around the time when you when your aunt took you? Do you have any memories of being with your mom before your aunt took you?
Speaker 2:I, you know it's wild. So, where we lived in Pittsburgh, I remember what the condo looked like. I remember my dad's funeral, um, I remember the trips we would take to my aunt's house. I don't, I don't remember the fish, like the official move to Delaware, like this was it, uh, but I remember those trips, like going back and forth from Pittsburgh and I was also going to Buffalo, cause my grandmother would come and help my mom as well, so she would. I would be bouncing around, um, all over the place until my aunt was like no, this, she needs to be here.
Speaker 1:But you don't remember your mom being like any situations where you're like I felt unsafe.
Speaker 2:No, I mean I, I was so young. It's like those moments I don't remember. The only thing like that really I'll never forget and this was kind of the breaking point for my aunt I found my mom's drug pipe like in her purse in one of her closets. And that's what my aunt was like Lori, you need to get out, you need to go get help, you cannot do this to your daughter anymore and I can't have you stay here anymore. And I, I, just I look back at my aunt of just she was in her 20s, like she just had her son, like her oldest uh sister was a shit show and then, like here she's taking care of me too, like I, I don't know how she did it the sports kind of.
Speaker 1:Was that kind of like a escape for you or being an athlete?
Speaker 2:oh, yeah, I and I was a very hyperactive child and my it was like you were in every sport and I just thought for you this would be such a great way to have that outlet. And I mean I still have great friends through playing since the age of five and playing softball and I look back of just my aunt with her business. A lot of times I didn't have her there at our tournaments or games and having my friend's parents kind of be looking out for me on the field and off the field on those trips and and it, like I said, it was a small town so everybody kind of looked out for each other for the most part. It was really special.
Speaker 1:So your mom ends up passing away and you guys were just kind of, you said, developing or trying to deepen your relationship, which I feel like is just another gut punch for you. It's like, okay, what could have been? Do you struggle with that where you're like what would she be like now?
Speaker 2:All the time. I had the weird feeling the other day where I was like I'm going to call my mom and I was like whoa, I haven't done that in a long time. So she passed when I was about 32. My husband and I got married. We eloped and had like our core family there and then a year later we had an anniversary party and the years of when my husband and I were like dating and it was some of the hardest years with my mom because her alcoholism got so bad that we had to put her in rehab twice.
Speaker 2:I would be at work but I was like traveling all the time for Under Armour and so I would just skip family, like visits to her or my grandmother wasn't doing well, so I just I never made time because I just didn't want to deal with what was happening to her because she would lie to me. She had two DUIs and it just um, it was just so frustrating and her to not want to change and it was something I realized growing up like she never wanted to change, to be my mom and to take care of me and I felt like it was the same thing. Yeah, we, we kinda I don't. I think she just realized how sick she was. She had rheumatoid arthritis. And that week, when we had the party was just like, we didn't argue, we didn't fight, she was like under control with her drinking at the time, and we just had the party was just like, we didn't argue, we didn't fight, she was like under control with her drinking at the time, and we just had the best time. We danced to Whitney Houston at the party, like it was everything. And then, literally a week later, she passed and it was just like. It felt like we were turning this new page together and I felt like my mom and I were having this great relationship again and it's like it was gone.
Speaker 2:And yeah, to now, like thinking about, I think about she would have been an amazing grandmother. Yeah, she was okay mom, but I, she would love these kids so much she would spoil a shit out of them. She would probably made my stepdad to move to Baltimore or move to the beach. And I just think, especially in the moments my stepdad and I still we didn't have like a close relationship when she was alive, cause he just wasn't like, um, an emotional type of stepfather, and my mom was like he just it's not a feely, touchy guy, james, like he just doesn't like to talk about his emotions.
Speaker 2:But something changed when she passed and I was like Ken, you need me and I need you and we. I literally call him almost every day, he texts me, every day he comes and visits us and I, just in these moments when he's with the kids, and especially we, were up at the house and like her ashes are still on the mantle, like I, you know, the house is still her and I see my two kids in this house, I'm like I just can't believe she's not here to see this, you know, and to experience with Ken and seeing him be such a great grandfather to these children too, like she would be so beyond herself, yeah.
Speaker 1:And so, coming from this you know, just unstable all in it, all worked out, but just very unstable upbringing. You probably wanted and yearned for your own family so badly, and then for you to embark on trying to have a family and then to hit all of these horrible roadblocks, it's like why you know no, it's funny, I I didn't know I wanted kids.
Speaker 2:And same thing, like with my husband, because we were so career focused. He was just starting starting his business. He left his other job. I, because of my upbringing and what I've seen and experienced, I was like, well, I don't want to fuck my kids up. I like don't want this to happen to them. And you know, I still I think, because of what I happened seeing with my mom and then my aunt and uncle, I've always had this fear like are we going to get divorced, something bad going to happen to us and our relationship? And so I just didn't want to do that to my own kids. So I was like, all right, well, I'll just focus on my career. And then, when Brad and I got married, I'm like, do we start trying? Like it's been a couple of years, like we'll give it a go. And we got pregnant pretty quickly. And so we were both like we right, we're gonna, we're gonna do this, yeah. And then, yeah, we we found out we were pregnant in July 2019. And then we I went for a scan at the 12 week mark, so it was around like September, and they were like, well, we see some weird, something off a little bit.
Speaker 2:It just looks like there's a cyst in the baby's abdomen we'll bring you back in a few weeks. And I was like okay, and literally the next day they found a lump in my breast. So they weren't sure, like what was going on with that. So I was literally getting biopsy done on my breast and then at the same time had to go back to see to make sure everything's okay with the baby. I had a benign, everything was fine. They're just figuring out what's from hormones and went back for my appointment and I just told Brad cause he didn't come to the 12 week. I was like, can you just come with me just to be there? Like it just it's weird. I was like I just need you there and we go in.
Speaker 2:Lady, just, you know, does ultrasound. She shows us the baby's face, we're excited, and then she gets quiet and then she brings the doctor in and this guy definitely did not his like bedside manners whatsoever, but he's just pressing really hard and he's just like, okay, cleans me up. He's like we're just going to go to this room down here and we're just going to chat. I'm getting cleaned up. I'm like Brad, something, something's not right, this does not feel right at all.
Speaker 2:We go in this room, we sit down and the doctor comes in with the genetic counselor and they're just saying we see something very wrong. It looks like your baby has orthogryposis. So, basically, the hands are curled in and you can see it on the scan that the legs weren't fully out, it was like the baby was sitting. And they laid it out to us like well, it was like the baby was sitting and they laid it out to us like well, your baby may not make it and if they do, they're going to need pretty severe surgeries to help correct a lot of these things. And we just don't know how severe it is. You know they're looking at the scan and seeing. You know it's not good. And then the genetic counselor she had such better manners and to explain to us and when the doctor left she was just like, listen, here's what we could do. We could get you a second opinion and just think about it. I'm happy to get you in.
Speaker 2:And so Brad and I were just and it's weird because we had this discussion before we even got pregnant Like if something seriously is wrong, if we have a baby and and we have to termin or make that decision or whatever. Like we're on the same page, like we're in it together, which is so weird because we weren't even sure if we wanted to have kids. But here we are at this table and they leave and we're just like this is what we talked about. We have to see if this is even an option, because I don't even know. Like we just didn't expect anything like this. So the doctors come back in I mentioned you know, if we have to proceed to terminate this pregnancy, what does that look like? They're like, oh, you can't do that here we're a Catholic hospital. We're like, oh, okay, all right.
Speaker 2:And I'm just in shock because it's like getting the news and then hearing that it's just like we don't even know what our options are, what this is, how the hell we got this ortho kyposis, because nothing came up in our genetic testing or anything. So we go to university of maryland next day, get in and the doctor there they were like a high fetal risk, uh, hospital. And so the main doctor there was like it does not look good, like it's something with the central nervous system is not firing up. You can see it in the blood flow. He's just like this is not good guys.
Speaker 2:So we decided to terminate at 17 weeks and so I had to go through a DNC and I had a whole week to wait before we went forward with the surgery. So I was literally one of the biggest events in Baltimore for the city with running, and I was running our running category for sports marketing. We had all these athletes coming in and to explain that I, that we're not going to have a baby anymore. We were receiving gifts. You know, it's just so much.
Speaker 2:And when people are like how's the baby, how's it going, you run into people and you're just I just kind of like locked myself in our condo and just didn't want to come out. And then we had the DNC and the doctor did confirm that we made the right choice and that gave us peace. But what I realized that week, it was just like, well, if you want to go to work, you know, later this week you can. There was just no anything, no resources, and I think that's the beauty about community, of other people reaching out to me to say I've been through what you've been through. I would love to help. And one was an acupuncturist in Baltimore who went through three miscarriages herself and she just said listen, I heard what happened to you. I would love to help you.
Speaker 2:And I just didn't realize, like, what that could look like. At the same time, I had a friend mentioned about a therapist. So I go and see Marianne, who's my therapist, up to this day, and I didn't know. I just never went to therapy. And to think what we just talked about with my background, what the hell was a night in therapy, what the fuck. And I sit down with her and I'm like checking off the box, like all right, I'm here at therapy, I'm going to talk about what happened and then I'm going to go back to work because, like, I just need to do something. I can't think about this anymore, I don't want to talk about it. And then she was like, well, who's who's supporting you right now? And I mentioned like oh, my husband, my aunt, and I tell her about my relationship with my mom and what happened.
Speaker 2:I think that's when she was like, oh, there's a lot more to lock here. James, you haven't grieved about your mother yet and the relationship that you had with her and everything you went through. But now you just lost your daughter and you don't have a mom here to console you. But also the way that you didn't know you wanted this child, it didn't hit me until we got the news and we lost that baby. How badly I wanted to be a mother. Then I had no idea it like brings tears to my eyes because I just was so focused on career and work and like avoiding the emotion and feelings of like being nurturing and then to see to have something taken away from you that you didn't even know you wanted it. Like, wow, that hits so hard, so hard.
Speaker 1:So what happened next in terms of pregnancies?
Speaker 2:Oh, here we go pregnancies.
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Speaker 2:So that happened October 2019. And I mentioned about in the book how you just get very fixated of you're going to get pregnant again. Here's what I'm going to do Now I know what could happen. I'm going to get it earlier. So we tried three months after that and then the pandemic happened in March and so everything shut down and I mean I was pushing my husband like we're going to have scheduled sex, we're going to make this happen. And then I finally got pregnant again in July and then eight weeks later, I miscarried. Don't know, we don't know why. You know, it's just end up passing at home. And then shortly after that by so that was September of 2020, by January 2021, I got pregnant again.
Speaker 2:Everything was going great. My progesterone was a little bit low. I was like on it Okay, low, let me go take progesterone. Like here's the test I need to get done. And then we went in for the 12 to 13 week ultrasound. The same time we were waiting for our genetic results, the sonographer realized there was something going on with the heart and I still like I knew what I knew then, but like still didn't understand. Like I'm like there's just no way this can happen again, no way. Like well, they take us in a room, the head doctor comes in we already know him, and he's like guys, this is not looking good. And so we found out that that baby another, it was another female. It was caused by triplody, which is when two sperm hit the same egg and it creates a whole another set of chromosomes and baby does not make it. So we scheduled another dnc and literally the day before I was supposed to, I was on like about to leave the house to go get prepped for a dnc and it's because the day before you go and get dilated and everything and I end up miscarrying at home. And that was one of the most I mean traumatic experiences I've ever went through. I don't recommend it to anybody.
Speaker 2:Then we decided to go to Mexico. We have a blast two months later and I probably yeah, two months later got pregnant again. I'm like, okay, this is it, this is it, this has to be it. I go and schedule it early, go in and I see the screen and at this point you know what you're looking at and I see the screen. I'm like there's there's no like fetus, there's no baby Like, and I didn't say anything but that I could tell by the lady, the tech, and she was like I'm sorry, but there's no fetus, um, and then it explains it's a blighted ovum. So that was pregnancy number four. This is almost June of 2021. And so at that point, after two weeks of taking basically the abortion pill to help pass everything, I still had to go get a DNC. So that was my third surgery. So at this point I'm just like my body is not doing what it's supposed to. Am I having too many surgeries at this point? Is it going to affect things later on? Just very much of like why me?
Speaker 2:We escaped to Rehoboth Beach for the summer. I told my husband, like I can't spend another summer in Baltimore, I need to get out. And so that's what we did. We went to the beach for three, or not even for three months, it was like two months and I was just, we were like at a breaking point of like what do we do next? Before we try to figure out what was next, what was going on with me, I got him tested. I I mean any resource I could find online or what people did. I would reach out and say what'd you do? Like, all right, I need to get that test done and and really the unlocking was going to a functional medicine doctor who helped me realize like my thyroid was getting off like tripling every time I got pregnant and probably some other variables with like inflammation.
Speaker 2:But I just told Brad I was like we have to do IVF. I can't, I can't go through another three months of this and to get horrible news. And then my body was just fluctuating with hormones, the weight gain and then like feeling pregnant after these things. It's just and I was very much of a person that pried themselves in their body. I was like an athlete played college field hockey, like worked out all the time. I just didn't even recognize who I was anymore. I was like thinking about everything I put in my body, like can I eat this, should I be drinking? And I enjoyed being around friends and going out and you know, going to the bar and have it, just all those things.
Speaker 2:You just just feel like you can't do it anymore and it's just locking you up now and then, and then we started the IVF process of September 21 and go through all the tests. Everything comes back clear and then, um, right before we were going to start the next steps, shots, all that. I got pregnant with our now daughter, adley, and I just it was during my birthday weekend in October and I was like I'm not going to test it, I'm going to wait for another day, I'm going to wait for one more day. And then I was just like, all right, here we go, we're pregnant again.
Speaker 2:And it just when you've been through this experience, this journey, you it's just every part of it just gets robbed. You can't celebrate, can't get excited. You go to these appointments. You're literally hanging on to dear life because you just don't know what the news is going to be. And so each appointment and I was going like on a weekly basis because I was like I, my mental health, like I just I need to know, like, are we okay? And then by the I think it really didn't sink in until the 20th week appointment that anatomy scan, that once, um, our tech she was with us for a couple other pregnancies and we just kind of knew how she worked. She didn't talk much, she was just like I'm going to check you first and then I'm going to check on the baby, and then, just so, she's like everything looks healthy. And my husband's like are the hands okay? Like what are the, what are the hands and?
Speaker 2:feet, like Because I think that for him was like stuck in his head and she's like everything looks perfect. But it's still like when you're going through that experience, you just know so much now because you have Googled and talked to everybody of all the shit that could go wrong that until she was in my arms like there's just no way like I it didn't feel real and you just couldn't like I almost didn't have a baby shower Cause I was like I just I didn't want to celebrate something that wasn't here yet. But then I was just like, well, fuck it, we're gonna. We're gonna party.
Speaker 2:We had a DJ and we're like we're not opening gifts, we're just going to get people together, and it was in April of 22 and just to celebrate. And then Adley came July 1st. But I mean, I hired a doula to be in the room with me. I hired a postpartum nurse because I was just so scared something would go wrong. I mean, even when they're like we're going to induce you and I remember calling my doula, I'm like I don't know if this is the right choice, like I just don't want to fuck this up. I don't know if this is the right choice. Like I just don't want to fuck this up. I don't want to mess this up. Yeah, and it'll go wrong. So we had Adley July 1st of 22.
Speaker 2:Um, I went back to work to a weird situation which is a conversation another day in itself and then um left that job of beginning of 2023 and then I was on a trip to my best friend's wedding in San Francisco and I was like, oh, coffee tastes weird. That's, that's odd and something that I don't know if this happened to you in your journey. Like certain signs would show up and the feathers were always a sign and always just popped in my. Even my therapist, like James, there's a feather like right next to you, like there was like these moments, and I was in San Fran like, like James, there's a feather like right next to you, like there was like these moments, and I was in San Fran like rolling up my yoga mat. There was a feather on the yoga mat and I'm like I just like pay attention to those like little dings and flew back. I was like God, I didn't drink that much, like that's odd, I just didn't think. But I was pregnant. And so I got pregnant with their son, carter, and we were just like we know how this goes. I never thought like having a second child wasn't even on the radar. We wanted to after we had Adley. But we were just like, let's just enjoy Adley, let's just be at peace with what we have. And we're so lucky.
Speaker 2:So, having Carter, we get to the 12 week appointment, everything looks good. I'm like, okay, we'll see what happens. Like we were still very hesitant to tell people. And then, you know, we get to almost the third trimester. Things are still going well. I'm like, holy shit, this is, this is not real life right now, like it's just everything we've been through.
Speaker 2:But then, right before Christmas, we caught the norovirus and I was. My husband had it for 24 hours and then everybody else was better, but I was still throwing up really badly. It was having pain on my right side. I went to the hospital twice of like am I okay, is this baby okay? Like I, things don't feel right and um. By the third time I went back we've realized that my appendix um erupted and so within not even 12 hours later, they were immediate surgery. They're like listen, we don't know if we're going to have to get him out first, but we think we could work around him.
Speaker 2:And I think, because I was so sick and I was just like we just got to do what we got to do to keep this baby alive and healthy. So like, do whatever docs, I trust you. And was in a room with 20 something doctors, all women, which was like I don't know. Just like the women that came in, the doctors who said they were in the room, I'm like, wow, that's so powerful. But we had the NICU team, the OB team, the ER team and a four hour surgery. They took my appendix out, they kept my son in and three weeks later ended up delivering him, which was so insane. But even then like the anxiety of like pregnancy after loss, then having your children after loss, like it's still a thing, and I know you and I talked about it. It's like you know, even when they get sick, I'm like is everything okay? Like do I need to take them to the hospital? Do I, like you, just think the worst case scenario?
Speaker 1:So it's like an anxiety that continuously working on oh, because the mom anxiety, the baseline, I think, of a parent anxiety is. You know it's there and then you ramp it up by a hundred.
Speaker 2:It's wild yeah, yeah, and I'm like is this, is this normal? Do other moms feel this way about everything and like even traveling to come here like I was like, oh god, what happens if something bad happens? It's just worst case scenario. But I think when we were talking about my childhood and getting like, how do I? I just have to go back to the light and just keep thinking positivity and grounding myself and gratitude and keeping myself both feet on the ground and be like this is this. We're here now, like I can't spiral and do this because it's just going to it. It doesn't do any good and you just have to remind yourself to be in the now and focus Right. What's it right here?
Speaker 1:No wonder you coauthored a book. Yeah, like you know you hear that you sit here and you, you know you just like it's, it's incredible what some women go through to have their child. You know, I mean it's just I'm in awe. I mean, having gone through what I've gone through, I'm just sitting here listening to you and I'm like my God, it's crazy. So how did you stumble upon? So it was in your heart and like clearly you are very interested in helping other women and supporting people, whether it's in their workplace or just in their life, like being like a lighthouse for others. When were you like you know what I should like be a part of this book the Losses we.
Speaker 2:Keep. When were you like? You know what I should like be a part of this book the Losses we Keep. So the idea came from my doula, my postpartum doula, lisa. She was helping us during the day and we were talking about my work and what was going on. I was like I don't know if I want to go back and I just don't like the environment that I'm in. And she's like Jane, you need to write a book about your experience and what you went through. I don't think you realize of you sharing your story, because we were kind of forced to tell what happened to us and I don't know if, if we were less than where we were and like not because we announced it on social media. We were pregnant 14 weeks, I you know. And then we had to say three weeks later, like this is not going to work, so I had to post something. But Lisa was like Jane, what you've done for other women in this space to give them that they're not alone, here's how you can help get through it, like you've been that beacon for so many people. You need to write a book about your experience.
Speaker 2:So I went back to work and something just kept calling me to help other women in this, because I would get DMS. I would, and I'm sure for you, people are like what'd you do? How'd you get through this? Thank you for sharing I don't. I feel less alone. I feel like I'm not ashamed of what I chose to do. So the book kept coming through and I was like maybe I should write a book. I don't know, I don't even know where to start from writing a book, and so I shared with a friend of like I have this idea of writing a book about our pregnancy loss journey and how it can help other women, and she connected me with Jessica Buchanan. Jessica's story is unbelievable, which is you got to get her on here. But I went to Jess and I just said I have this idea about writing a book about our pregnancy loss journey, but I feel like my story is just one.
Speaker 2:There's so many different cases of what women go through and they need that like example, so it relates to them. She's like what about anthology? I was like absolutely Like community is everything. Community is like the catalyst for change. Like if I could curate that in a book. I've done it in other ways, through running and teaching, spin class and running like all the things Like absolutely Like, how do we do this? Yeah, run it. Like all the things like absolutely like how do we do this, yeah. So she was like you're gonna need find other other authors who've been through this experience and then we'll have them share, as their story is in a chapter.
Speaker 2:So, and I just mentioned, like the losses we keep. We carry it just the title of it. I was like we, you never forget these dates and these moments and these babies that come into our life, even though sometimes we don't get to meet them in person. But like, damn well, like March 28th was the first due date for our first little girl and I just always think about that date, you know, and these moments of time. And so that's how we created the concept the Losses we Keep.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, the goal was to have 10 authors. We had nine other women who joined in the book and anything from pregnancy loss to going through IVF and what that experience was like, to second infertility and choosing a surrogate and why and what. She went through ovarian cancer twice right before they removed her second ovary. She had to hurry up and go through IVF to save eggs, and so now she has her son Parker, but talked about her insane experience. So I think it's really amazing to see women to have a platform and that's what really just to create that platform for them to share their story, because some of these women never shared publicly, even on social, and to say, like I'm going to share my story because I want to help others.
Speaker 2:I feel like there's such a shift in women's health right now too, like you see it, not only for you know, infertility, but also for menopause, perimenopause now, and women saying like you're not alone and what you're feeling, you should not be ashamed and here's how you can get help. Here are the people, the resources and it's like the more we can do that as a collective of women to help other women to get through these hard times. Like why the hell not um, versus holding it in and feeling shamed, and but it's, it's hard at times when, if you're not surrounded around the right people to encourage you and not to make you feel ashamed, because I remember feeling that like. I remember when we first decided to terminate I'm not going to say exactly who in the family, but somebody in the family was like well, you need to be careful what you say out loud because you know, some other people around us work with children who have disabilities and so they may feel differently and I'm like like well, if that's the way they feel, but this is my life, this is my fucking choice, this is what's best for our family right now.
Speaker 2:Like I've seen what it could do to families financially, stress level, like up close and personal with my own half brother, and that was a decision that Brad and I made, that we just didn't want to do that like we, we just didn't want to go through that. So, yeah, it's just to see something like the losses we keep come to life and to be a resource for other women, and not just for women who been through it, but also what's unlocked is for caregivers. You know, to realize like I had a woman last night was like I shared your book with my sister. Her daughter has gone through multiple losses and my sister just didn't know what to say anymore and she's reading your book and it's really helping her understand what her daughter's going through.
Speaker 2:And then only to practitioners, like a doctor who is in the OB space but may not understand, like behind the doors at home with like what their patient is actually going through and why they need to be mindful of every step point of like when that patient's coming back in your room making sure there's not signs of like. Here's your baby. Here's about breastfeeding. Because that was something that happened to me after the third loss. They had like what to expect when you're expecting a baby and like the kit and everything and I'm like this is a sick fucking joke right now and then to have me sit in that room for 30 minutes cause they were running late. Nobody check on me. I mean I'm surprised they like I didn't go to a mental institute after that, because I was just like this, this is sickening and I just I text her. I was like I had to leave.
Speaker 1:I'm like they put me in this room. This is what was on the bed. I sat there for almost 40 minutes. I walked out. Well, it's like you're an afterthought. It's like it's like when you're going through something so horrible like child loss, it's like you're like pushed to this, like, oh, let's not, let's not. You go through the back door, like I talk about the back door when you get the shitty news and it's like okay, instead of you walking through the lobby with all these happy pregnant people.
Speaker 2:We're going to walk you to this back room back door so nobody can see you yes, and. I had no idea. I was like, oh, that's what happens to these people, right? So the losses, we keep Amazon, amazon, yeah, amazon, and we can do wholesale. A lot of practitioners have asked if they could buy copies and everything.
Speaker 1:But yes, you can find it on lot of us. You're really still trying to feel your way through your journey and how you can make the most impact. That feels aligned small business or whatever the medium-sized business, anyone out there who works for a company. What are we doing to support situations like miscarriage, child loss? Are we, you know, are we talking about that in these strategic conversations? Is this part of the plan for your employees? And if it's not, not why? And can we start having those conversations? I would like I'm asking the question, it's not rhetorical. I would like to hear from anyone out there who you know feels like no, there's a total gap here. Or, oh my god, my company's doing x, y and z. I'd like to know what's happening, what's best practices, what's not working out there, like can you just like send us some DMs, emails, talk to Jamie. There are people like us everywhere who stand ready and are passionate to make a difference for the woman that we were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, yeah, I mean, when we found out the first loss, I was like I said I was at Under Armour and I didn't know what else to do besides go back to work, because I was afraid that people were going to look down at me already that I was going to go on maternity leave, but now that we're not having a baby, like I'm like, all right, I'm going back to work, that's it. And I know some companies have included in their policy that if there's been a miscarriage or a stillbirth, they lost a child, where maybe they're in the Bayverment HR policy, but but not many at all. And also something that has really come up for me it's like a lot of these companies are paying for ivf benefits, which is amazing, or they're paying for surrogacy or a adoption agency. But those processes of going through ivf, trying to adopt, trying to go through like the stress level and capacity that these people are going through, then to show up at work and act like everything's okay and meanwhile, behind closed doors, like there's so many things that are going wrong that the stress level of it and the pressure that they have to do to show up at work and act like everything's okay, I really do feel like there's a gap for leaders and training them to be compassionate and empathetic towards those employees. And how do you talk to those employees on your team that are going through these things?
Speaker 2:Because there was none of that under Armour whatsoever. And my very best boss she was a woman had three kids. She just left the month before this all happened to me. So I had to go talk to my brand new boss, who was a male and I mean, luckily, he was very understanding, but he didn't check in on me and was like Jamie, you need to take time. Like he was like all right, whatever you need to do, you know, and I think that companies, if you have teams, you have people. It is your responsibility to help train your leaders to be armed with with these things, to how to manage and to work with your people who are going through these hard chapters, cause I just don't think there's anything there. It's like they pay for the benefits, great, but like do you? Do you realize what else is going on behind the scenes?
Speaker 1:I mean public service announcement for any company out there.
Speaker 1:I don't care if you're 10 people or 10,000 people and being a male is not as it's not an excuse. I don't want to hear like, oh, until we had someone who went through it. If you own a company and you have people, specifically women, you are going to have situations in your company where women suffer miscarriages, they suffer child loss and they need time, they need support, they need mental health days. So if you are just not prioritizing that or you're putting a blind eye to it, shame on you. And this is the call to action now is, if you're not doing it, set up your zoom call or set up your meeting or whatever you need to do to. How about this? How about a little brainstorm with the females, a little powwow? What do you guys need?
Speaker 2:And parent groups and whatever it may be like you have asked the questions you have them.
Speaker 2:And so it's just having the discussion and just ripping that band-aid off because it's needed. It's so needed. Do the right thing. I recently just did a talk for a fortune 500 company and we did a panel with some of the other authors and one of them, sarah, talks about how she found out her daughter at 13 weeks being pregnant. They she had down syndrome and her and her husband decided, like for their family, they would have to terminate and some of the survey feedback that we got from that ERG group for from the women's group. One of the guys in the room was like thank you for saying what you did, because that's how we felt, but we proceeded to have our daughter.
Speaker 2:But I just didn't realize the mental and physical load that my, my wife was going through at that time. And then also another woman spoke about how she was lucky enough to have a really great boss who didn't he didn't know that cut to a degree of what she was going through with IVF because she went through four rounds. But he basically was like you need to take a few days and having somebody to give you permission. She was like I just I was just hanging on so tightly that I didn't realize what was happening because I was going through so much at home. So just showing up as a better leader and like just leaning in, you gotta, you gotta lean in, you gotta do the work. If you're a leader and sometimes you're not going to get it from your executive, you're not going to have somebody to like to assign that training for you. Like, if you know you have people on your team who are going through this, like, do the work, be a better leader and try to understand instead of being just not too long.
Speaker 1:Amen, sister. Yeah, any closing thoughts, jamie?
Speaker 2:You know, I just I really feel like there's this beautiful movement for women's health, especially what you're building in the conversation about infertility, pregnancy and child loss that, given what's going on in our environment right now, I just I'm proud. I'm proud of us in stepping up, because I feel like we need more people like this in this world to help other people get through it. And it's been like I always say it's like the shittiest club to be part of, but the best members. You know, I feel fortunate that I've got to meet these members, but I just I'm so grateful for this work and what it's taught me, um and just I'm just proud that we can be a vessel to help others in this way. So thank you for everything you're doing Well. I'm proud to know you.
Speaker 1:Same same Can't get rid of me. I'm coming back to Columbus Not trying to Thank you. So much, jamie, thank you, and if you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, go to Amazon. Put the losses we keep in your little thing. Hit, send and keep moving baby. Thank you.
