The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
Lana Manikowski on Redefining Purpose After Infertility & Creating a Life You Love Without Kids
What happens when the fertility journey ends and there’s no baby?
Lana Manikowski lived that.
Seven years of treatments, zero viable embryos — and a whole lot of silence from the people who were supposed to help her through it.
In this episode, we talk about:
→ Grieving what could’ve been
→ Redefining purpose when motherhood isn’t part of the story
→ Baby showers, holidays, and all the awkward sh*t no one prepares you for
→ Finding joy — even with a little grief in your back pocket
Lana is real, brilliant, and brave as hell.
And if you’ve ever felt like the only one navigating life after infertility — this one’s for you.
🎙️ Listen to the full episode now.
💻 Download her free guide at lanamanikowski.com
📖 Get her book "So Now What?" HERE
#TheKeriCroftShow #InfertilitySeries #LifeAfterInfertility #ChildlessNotByChoice #SayTheThing #YouAreNotAlone #InfertilityAwarenessMonth #LanaManikowski #PurposeBeyondMotherhood #OthersDay #1in6
a pair of Valentino slides for like $3.79. I know they must have had a big last year's liquidation or something that they sent off to the rack. Coco, nobody's going to bug you.
Speaker 2:I'm just going to do this for your mom.
Speaker 1:This is good. I had to wear my. I turned 50 in May. My parents got me this and it says you always shine like a star, thank you. They had it engraved in the back. So I was like, okay, I'll wear this today. Those eyeballs, she'll get hot in the middle and she'll get up and move. I got lots of those, all right. Resting bitch face. Yeah, okay, I got lots of those resting bitchface. Yeah, okay, will you stop my camera right here and then we'll restart right before you sit down so I don't run out of battery. You're going to have someone else to meet. What's her name? Yeah, kate's going to be here later.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm on these new menopause, hair loss, um vitamins and so I feel it, I have a lot of new hair growth and I feel like I've got these alpha. Yeah, I, they're from london, from the uk gloa, I'll send you the link, but I order them and they ship um, but yeah, I've got like a ton of new hair growth. So my thanks, thanks. Well, I just I was saying I have a lot of little flyaways because it's new growth. Okay, oh god, okay, oh good, okay, never know. Okay, you know you're going to be sitting in the car for a long time. Are you sure you want to be this curled up? She does love the car. I know it's nice. That's why, when the dog walker cancelled, I was like, okay, we're going to do a girls trip. Walker canceled and I was like, okay, we're gonna do a girl's trip, okay, test. Um, I don't consider myself soft spoken.
Speaker 2:I don't know the answer to that I might feel like it's super close to you, but that's okay, try not to bump into it.
Speaker 1:I might feel like it's super close to you, but that's okay. Okay, I'm trying not to bump into it. Are you sure my can's not ruining your set? I can move it. No, okay, I'm fine with it, you are? Yeah, you can do it. Probably not because I won't be able to reach it. Or maybe we can put it down here and I can grab it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'll go back here.
Speaker 1:I'll take it that way. I don't have to bug you this dog takes priority over my life.
Speaker 2:Coco's on. Okay, coco and Lana, coco and Lana Manikowski. Welcome to the.
Speaker 1:I am so good. How are you? I'm so good. I'm really glad to be here. You came all the way from Chi-Town. I did. I wanted a little road trip. We did a girls' night in Columbus. Where did you stay? We stayed at the A-Loft, which was super dog-friendly. Coco got her own ball. They had like treats for her. What did you had like treats for her. So I didn't eat dinner.
Speaker 2:I just yeah, we just kind of got in around 7, 30 and chilled out. Yeah, I'm just, I'm so flattered.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I know you offered uh zoom and I was like, ah, I don't know. I felt like we'd vibe better in person, so I'm glad to be here anytime I can get somebody here, as opposed to remote, I'm all about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so you, just like many women that we have been talking to and some men in the month of April, you've gone through your own long battle with infertility and for you the ending was you didn't have any kids and so you have become an advocate and a voice and sort of this light for people who, at the end of this journey if it's like, hey, I don't want to go through anything else, I'm done they can look to you and be like, well, shit, life could be real damn good and you've done all kinds of stuff which we'll get into and you've written a book and you're just like a source of you know.
Speaker 1:I think personally like a safety net, positivity and kind of like oh, I feel so much less alone I'm. That's really what I wanted when I left. My seven-year treatment journey without kids was a living, breathing human that wasn't full of toxic positivity and positive affirmations, but but someone who was like this sucks, this is not where you expected to be, this is not why you work so hard, but you're here Now how are we going to get through it? So now what?
Speaker 2:So tell us a little bit about your journey.
Speaker 1:Well, it started. I got married at 35. I was always very career driven social travel, like all the fun things and I met my husband at 32. We got married I was 35. And after about two years it was actually a friend of mine who had gone through fertility treatments. That said to me you know how you and Jack thinking about having kids, and I was like, yeah, we've been trying. And she said you know, I'm not trying to get in your business, but I just want you to know that you might want to have some workup done. And I it was like this light bulb went off, which is kind of crazy because in hindsight I'm like how did I not think of that sooner? So she gave me the name of her reproductive endocrinologist in Chicago.
Speaker 1:I went for a workup and at 37, I was diagnosed with unexplained infertility and that was the first time that I can recall in my life. Feeling so helpless and being called unexplained to begin with as a clinical diagnosis just blows my fucking mind. That people say that. You know like, how is that someone unexplained? But that was my diagnosis and my husband and I then started a seven year off and on treatment path. We started in Chicago. We did nearly seven IUIs, I believe, which is crazy, and a couple rounds in Chicago. And when that didn't result in any frozen embryos, we had one fresh transfer, no frozen embryos.
Speaker 1:We decided to take a break. I was in my 40s at that point. I was 41 and took a break. And then again another friend with infertility was like hey, are you sure you're ready to hang it up? And I needed that voice to kind of question me because I had been back and forth on it myself.
Speaker 1:And she started going to a clinic out in Colorado and she's like you know, it's totally different than doing your full-time job and living your life in Chicago and then doing infertility treatments on top of that. It's a totally different vibe. When you go out to Colorado, you stay in a hotel, you kind of just check out from real life. And I decided to do that. So I went to a clinic in Colorado and pursued three more rounds and had one frozen embryo from my first round and had one frozen embryo from my first round and at the end of those three rounds that was the only thing that we had to move forward with. And we got it chromosomally tested and it had trisomy 16. And I was told that it would never be viable for implantation. And that's where our treatment path ended. And what was the moment?
Speaker 2:Do you?
Speaker 1:remember the breaking point where you were like, okay, I'm absolutely done, path ended and it's just the epitome of like, maybe I'll get 12 to 15 or what you know. It's like this, you know the epitome of the number, and then you don't get there and it is just a I don't even know the word to describe it like. It's just like you fall off of a building, and so what was the moment with you and your partner?
Speaker 2:Do you remember?
Speaker 1:Well, we were on the phone with our reproductive endocrinologist because this was 2018. So Zoom wasn't really a big thing and we were doing remote cycles in Colorado and it was actually his advice that I don't move forward with more. I was grateful that he was honest with me. He said you know, we've changed your protocols, we've tried different things. Your results seem to be the same. It's up to you if you want to do more, but I'd advise that if you do more, expect the same outcome. And that's kind of what I needed to hear. He didn't tell me no. I felt like he gave me the option to decide whether I wanted to.
Speaker 1:But just intellectually, I just sort of knew, like, why am I going to continue to do this? And is it really because I want the baby or is it because my desire to succeed and achieve the goal and do the thing that seemed impossible was that really the thing that was calling me towards moving ahead? So in the end, they offered adoption and egg donor services and we contemplated adoption for a long time but decided that that wasn't the right answer for us. Maybe it was both right. Maybe you did always want to be a mom and you're a very driven person and it was both of those things. It's possible, yeah, and that's possible, yeah, yeah. I just felt like I I didn't really know my why anymore and I think that's really what it came down to was. I looked at you know, I was 44 and it's I was looking at my friends and they were all had their kids and my dreams of raising my kids with my best friends, kids and the milestones of enjoying motherhood together. I felt like that was gone. Some of my friends from high school you know I'm seeing on Facebook they're already grandparents and I'm like what the hell? Like I'm just trying to like pop out a kid and they're like grandparents already. So it just felt like this loss of identity. Really. Like, who am I Like? Who am I turning into? And I think that there was part of me that just wanted to move forward and find the peace because my life felt like it was in a holding pattern for so long. He was very much what I wanted to do. I felt like he was in alignment with there were.
Speaker 1:When we started our fertility treatments, we agreed that we would be on each other's side with whatever felt right for us. So in the beginning he didn't really want to do ICSI. He thought it was important that you know the sperm and the egg find each other and that there was some sort of natural formation. Well, that one we gave that up for a while. We were doing ICSI soon after our first couple rounds did not result in a pregnancy, but there was a mutual respect, I think, of what felt right for us. So I felt very supported by him and in hindsight I don't think I really took his opinion into account much. I, more so, felt like I bore the burden of infertility because I was the one who was infertile it wasn't male factor, so I felt like I was the one who was carrying everything. So I don't think I asked him a lot, but he never made a big deal out of it.
Speaker 1:This is probably a dumb question, because I think the grieving process for things probably never ends. It gets better, it's different. But how was that process for you? When you finally were like, okay, this is definite, we're done, the finality of that, and then you trying to sort through the new reality, your identity, what you're going to do, moving forward, I felt really lost.
Speaker 1:I felt like I needed to show up bold and together and very unaffected. I think that's how I showed up in my corporate life. Very unaffected, I think that's how I showed up in my corporate life. I would go to work events and I always had like the best outfit and the best handbag and the one that people would look at and be like, oh my God, like not having kids must be wonderful. It was this facade that I felt like I needed to put on to make people think I was okay. And I remember coming home from events and just feeling exhausted because I had put this act on of who I was.
Speaker 1:So I was very much living in shame of not being able to figure out something that most people just are able to do, and so I think for me I just really wanted to feel connected to myself, but I didn't know how. I wasn't offered any resources of where to go. I wasn't even offered a therapist by my clinic when I found out that we were finishing treatment and I didn't know how to achieve that connection with somebody. I didn't see people around me who had gone through IVF and didn't end up as parents. So I alienated myself somewhat from my friends because I didn't want to be the wet towel on their excitement about their kids' birthday parties and baby showers and things like that. So I just pulled away and became really alienated from people that I was usually the cheerleader for. So I judged myself a lot too, like am I a bad friend? Am I this horrible jealous person who can't be happy for somebody who got their dream because I was so lost in not having mine?
Speaker 2:I feel like that's something a lot of people can relate to, and knowing that there's duality, you know, knowing that you can I can look at my friends and be joyful for them, but I can also be heartbroken for me is, I think, a concept that's foreign to people, I'm glad we're talking about it and I'm glad that people on the outside can understand that, that you aren't this horrible jealous person who's small and just doesn't want to be there for people.
Speaker 1:You are a very loving person who has been dealt a hand and a card in their hand is heartbreaking beyond measure, and so you can carry those things, but it's hard to carry it all it really is. Yeah, the grief part is, I think, the most foreign thing, because I wasn't grieving a loss. I never once had a positive pregnancy test, so I never had a pregnancy loss. There was like I felt like I wasn't entitled to my grief because I wasn't grieving anything but a dream, yeah, but I mean, coco, we have company.
Speaker 2:Coco, what are you a?
Speaker 1:pit bull. Yeah, coco, we have company. Kate's here. Look, this is Coco. How are you, kate? Hi, how are you? Good, coco, we have company. Oh, she is. Oh, there we go. Yeah, right now you're recording.
Speaker 2:Okay, she looks fine. I think you might have bumped it a little bit, is it fine?
Speaker 1:Yeah, coco, kate's here. I'm going to take a sip and then can you turn my recording off for now, if you don't mind. This one, just for now. I'm afraid my battery's going to die.
Speaker 2:Okay, you saw it, if you don't mind this one just for now. I'm afraid my battery's going to die Hi.
Speaker 1:That's my life story with the charger with the charger.
Speaker 2:I was downstairs sniffing around people's offices like nothing to see here, just looking for a wire. I was doing that for scissors. One day I was down there. Like I know, one of these stores has a scissor. Excuse me, the grief.
Speaker 1:Yes, can you remember some of the things that were sort?
Speaker 2:of like a lighthouse for you. Was it a person? The grief yes, yes.
Speaker 1:I wish I could tell you yes and like for me it was my weight gain from my fertility treatments. And when I finished my treatments, I gave up on my body and I was like I'm just going to eat like shit. Who cares? This body's broken, I don't need to care for it.
Speaker 1:And when the pandemic came and the world shut down and I was working from home and not able to find my purpose through my job because that was something that really gave me purpose or so I thought I realized that I just couldn't stand the person I saw in the mirror and physically I looked to me terrible. I didn't fit in my clothes, I didn't feel attractive to my husband, I didn't want to you know, have sex Like I. Just everything just felt like so out of whack. And I started working with a weight loss coach who turned out to be a life coach and I never knew any. I heard of life coaching but I never really understood the principles of it. I thought it was somebody with like a clipboard telling you like this is what you need to do.
Speaker 1:And I worked with this woman through creating a new relationship with my body and forgiving my body for not being able to reproduce. And that's when the light went on for me, that the story that I'd been believing about myself didn't have to be true anymore. And she was really the person that flipped the switch for me and put the switch on, if you will that my story doesn't have to look like the vision that I thought my future would look like, because I didn't have kids. You know the sad person, the one that people obligatorily invite to Thanksgiving because, oh, you know, they don't have fam, they don't have kids, they don't have this. So I just always thought I would have this sort of sad life, and working with her made me realize that I could rewrite my story, and that's when I decided I wanted to do this for women who are childless after infertility, because I could not find anyone who was doing this work. What was?
Speaker 2:the first thing that you did? Did you jump on Instagram? I started my podcast. I could not find anyone who was doing this work. What was the first thing that you did? Did you jump on?
Speaker 1:Instagram. What was your first step? I started my podcast. That was in 2021, september of 21. I was in my closet with a pair of earbuds and if someone goes and listens to probably episode 1 through 20, I sometimes get embarrassed because it's like super shitty quality, but the content is great and I told my story really for the first time, and my mom I remember telling me oh my gosh, honey, I didn't know you were going through all of this. It was like so self-disclosing of things that I had never told people before. And then the emails started coming in of oh my gosh, you're the first person I've ever heard say this. Like I thought I was the only one. I didn't know. Other people were experiencing this and I have chills right now just thinking about how many people needed to hear this message and how proud I am that I found the way to share it. And it probably was like a floodgate, I can imagine, of people being like hey, me too over here. This happened Because people are so ashamed.
Speaker 2:There's not an open space, there's stigma, there's othering.
Speaker 1:There's so much that leads you to do anything but open up. Yeah, and I think people are. Often they feel misunderstood because people are always offering you suggestions of things, that things that you should continue to try to achieve motherhood. You know they're relaxed, it'll happen, pray on it or god has his ways. You know all these things that don't address the fact that motherhood isn't part of your future. So it's you. You feel really used to being misunderstood and trying to be fixed by everybody and to be able to be in a space where people can acknowledge that you are moving forward without kids and the fixing doesn't need to happen through having a child, like to me, that is the story and the words that most people don't hear that you can create a life that you love, even though you didn't have the children that you dreamed of.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All the time, yeah, everywhere. Yeah, like I was at the grocery store the other day and there was a mother pushing her baby in the carriage and they stopped at the deli counter. I was waiting for my monster cheese and I love monster cheese, oh, it's so good um, and she was doing this little piggy on the toes of her baby. And you know my eyes filled with tears, and not from a place of jealousy, but a place of like. What a beautiful connection, something that I'll never have, and there was part of me that mourns that, but I don't.
Speaker 1:I don't judge myself for mourning it, even though 2018 was when I found out that my journey to parenthood was going to be and or was ending. Found out that my journey to parenthood was going to be end or was ending, and, yeah, for a long time, walking through Target, through the maternity section, was really hard for me, seeing the mannequins with the maternity outfits, because, you know, I love my fashion and I always, you know, imagine having like the cute maternity clothes and yeah, so I think there are moments that I see families together and think, you know, they're making their memories that they're going to have for the next 50 years and my memories just are going to look different, and that's okay too. But I think it's really important to acknowledge that the grief doesn't have to fully be gone for you to feel like you're moving ahead.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I think that's a lot of people go through grief, be gone for you to feel, you know, and then sometimes you bring it down and you're like and you put it back up, but it's something you live with.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I actually I have an advanced coaching certification in grief and post-traumatic growth because I think that there is such a high level of grief it's called disenfranchised grief that women are going through because they don't feel validated to talk about grieving a dream, but that dream you had for your future felt so real that it feels like you physically lost someone or lost something. And I also think it's important for women to know that grief is an emotion and sadness is an emotion, happiness is an emotion, excitement is an emotion, and I think we get way too into the weeds of classifying emotions as good and bad emotions. So we think grief is a bad thing to do and to feel and to have. So we judge ourselves when we feel that sadness and that grief. You mentioned and I love this that you're interested in following women who, when they leave the fertility specialist without having a child.
Speaker 2:What's their story? What happens? Who's caring for them? What kind of bridge are people giving them Right?
Speaker 1:Talk a little more about that. Right, I am just blown away, and maybe because I spent 20 years in the medical field prior to leaving my job this past July. There was clinical data on everything. You know. There's all these studies going on and I started asking, like, what studies are there, what data points are there about women who leave treatment without a child and the people at big universities? I've asked them, I've asked psychologists, psychiatrists. People say you know, we don't follow them, we don't know. Do they go on to go to another clinic? Do they go on to adopt, get a surrogate? Like nobody knows this and I'm like, how do we not know this? So it's my goal to find some way to create the funding to get the study going so that we can actually know.
Speaker 1:Did women leave treatment? Were they offered mental health services? I was not. I was offered adoption or egg donor. No one said, hey, we have a therapist we'd like to refer to you. So where are these women going and how are they moving forward in their lives, Feeling as though they're supported and relevant, even when they're not a billable patient?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I decided about two years ago. Yeah, it was. How do I say it? It was very therapeutic for me, and not necessarily like putting the words on paper, but knowing that I'm creating a roadmap for somebody that I wish I had and that's really. I just wanted someone to say like here's a book, here's a podcast, here's a Facebook like something, and I got none of that. And I think about the terminally ill patient who somebody tells them read Tuesdays with Maury. You know like everybody gets a resource, but why do women who leave treatment not get a resource? So I wrote so now what to be a roadmap that women can follow along.
Speaker 1:There's different chapters in three different sections and the way I wrote the book, you don't have to start it front to back when you look at the chapter names and what I'm talking about. You can just pick it up and be like, oh, I got an invite to a baby shower, how do I respond? And there's a whole chapter on baby shower invites. There's one about holidays. So when you don't have the family traditions of Christmas to pass down, what do you do and how do you feel connected around the holidays to yourself and your life? So the book I really love that. It's resourceful but real.
Speaker 1:I think I'm not a toxic positivity person. I talked about that already. I think I'm not a toxic positivity person. I talked about that already. I think it's real important to be like, honest and open about the trenches that you're in and acknowledging that you're there, but how do you move ahead and come out of them for air every once in a while?
Speaker 1:I think for me, the parts are purpose the part about creating your purpose. I think a lot of us as women think that your purpose is automatically defined by being a mother. So I know for me and many of the clients that I work with in my coaching practice they come to me being like I don't know what my purpose is, and I have a totally different perspective on purpose. I don't think it's something that we declare for ourselves. I think if we're connected to who we are and we show up as the badass women that we are, people take from us what they need. So I look back I give this example all the time my second grade teacher.
Speaker 1:Maybe she was a mom, Maybe she was a wife to somebody, Maybe, who knows, she was active in her church community. I don't know, but the purpose she played for me, the purpose she played in my life, was to teach me the times tables and math and all these things that have been the foundation of me moving head in my life, knowing how to do arithmetic. So she showed that You're going to edit this out because I'm getting For me. That was the purpose she played in my life, and I think about people who meet me and somebody can take one thing about meeting me and somebody can find another reason that was impactful or resourceful about meeting me. So I let people decide for them what my purpose is and it keeps me from chasing this rubber stamp of like here's my purpose and you have to declare it for life and have it be this big, huge thing that you feel is impressive. And I think we make purpose really hard for ourselves.
Speaker 2:I like that and I agree with that.
Speaker 1:it's just showing up and being you and being connected to who you are. Life just flows that way.
Speaker 2:What's your advice on the holidays?
Speaker 1:I think you have to learn how to create your own traditions and we get stuck in this like, oh well, you know, grandma Mabel always made these cookies. Like, maybe you'll be the first one to bring a new recipe into the family, maybe you'll decide to go out of town for the holidays. I think we always think we have to show up and we put what's expected of us, from our family or from the traditions and we forget that we have our own traditions that we can make. What about baby showers? Baby showers it's difficult because we don't want to seem like we're the bad friend who can't be happy. What about baby showers? So maybe you want to go and drop off a present, and that's going to be your thing, and you just tell yourself, okay, I'm going to go, I'm going to take my present, I'm going to make an excuse that I got somewhere else to be, but you didn't want to miss it. I'm going to see how I feel and maybe I'll stay and stick around for the games. You know they always do like the games guess the name. Maybe, if I feel okay, I'll stay longer, but segmenting the event so that you don't feel like, oh my God, I got to stay here for three hours and be bombarded. So create a plan for yourself before you go.
Speaker 1:But if you decide that you don't want to go, it's okay to make up an excuse that you can't be there. You don't have to tell someone. It's hard for you, but maybe you can tell someone. You know I love you so much, carrie. I wish I could be there. But this is just a really hard time for me and I think that's really important. And I think we worry about our friends judging us or seeing us as weak or jealous, and oftentimes we create that self-judgment for ourself and we don't allow ourselves to really listen to our needs because we're too worried what people are going to think about us and how they're going married and then they're having kids most, if not like none of those girls are probably going to have the foresight to even understand what you're going through, and so you are going to be judged.
Speaker 2:And that's the thing where it's, I think, the awareness of it and saying and saying like okay, so the people who are having an easy time having kids amazing, but there are people out there who are not, so if your friend happens to be one, of them show some grace like. I know it's your baby shower and I know it's about you and you're excited, but there's a real reason here why this person can't support you at this moment.
Speaker 1:They're just not being a dick yeah, yeah, and sometimes what I would do too is like I'd volunteer to host, because hosting kept my brain off of being an attendee. Yeah, yeah, so I would. I'm like, one of my best friends had a baby shower and I had it at my house and you know, it kept me included, but not at the forefront because I could disappear. Yeah, yeah, yeah, and I, you know I'm really lucky. My friends, um, there's a group of four of us. We've been friends for years. One is a foster mom to two high school girls. Uh, one is an IVF mom of identical twins. Her embryo split this is the one who told me to go to Colorado and so she has identical twin girls. And then my other mom my other best friend is a single mom by choice and I'm a dog mom and we got, we got everything. We got the smorgasbord, yeah on the rise, baby.
Speaker 2:Yeah, on the rise yeah, she knew she.
Speaker 1:I think she saw that my friend who went through IVF and me struggling and she hadn't met the person that she wanted to settle down with and she knowingly got pregnant with someone that she was dating and told him. You know, like listen, I don't expect you to be part of the baby's life, but I want to have a kid. And he was game and they co-parent. They don't live together to be part of the baby's life, but I want to have a kid. He was game and they co-parent. They don't live together but they co-parent. The daughter is now eight years old and it works out great.
Speaker 2:Good. So how has your relationship with the Hubs evolved and how are you guys starting traditions and what are you doing? To sort of maximize this childless life, honey, because let me tell you, those of us that have youngins, we are living vicariously through this.
Speaker 1:That's funny, make no mistake.
Speaker 1:You know, I think a lot of people think that automatically your life just turns into jet setting and going here and going there. But, just like people who are parents of kids, you've got to plan for it, because if you don't have a plan, it's like, oh, we need to go to Italy, but unless you plan it, it just keeps being the thing on the radar. That said, we oftentimes do things on a limb, like we'll go to Europe with a month's notice or be on vacation and not sure where our next destination is in between now and our flight home, and that part is really fun. But as far as the relationship goes, I would be remiss without saying there was times when I wondered if our relationship was going to be enough without kids. My rock, like he supported me through everything and was there to pick me up, when times were more times, you know, heartbreaking than they were joyful and I didn't know if we'd have enough substance in our relationship to continue. But I think it's important to recognize why did you marry that person? Like, yeah, there's great traits that you were like, oh, when we have kids, they're going to have his brown eyes and he's six, six and so hot. But yeah, I really try to go back and remember like, what was it about him that attracted me to him, and look for those qualities and see that without parenthood he's still that same person. And on our anniversary we always talk about what do we want to do more of as a couple, but also as individuals, because I think it's important for us to have our own personal goals and achievements for ourselves, not just as a unit. So when he wants to go on a ski trip with the guys, I'm always like go. I love that. I want him to not be reliant on me as his own social outlet. So for us, I think we really deliberately create this goal or these like life dreams, together as couples, but also as individuals.
Speaker 1:And then we also have this cute thing. He started it, so I'll give him credit. It's a cute little piggy bank and in the piggy bank you put little notes to each other and it could be anything from dinner was awesome tonight, or you looked so beautiful when you were sleeping, or whatever, and he started this piggy bank. So now we do this and we drop little notes into each other and at the end of the year we empty the piggy bank and read our notes to one another. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I feel like you're such a dick. That's my birthday, may 14th, by the way. I'm like how did you know that? No, he's a gift, a good gift giver, so I would never say that on may 14th. But, um, yeah, uh, we haven't gotten to that point yet. But where we put, where we put shitty notes in, but yeah, yeah, yes, we just say it out loud.
Speaker 1:We don't have to, we don't have to mince words, yeah, I'm sure you guys, like I would imagine yeah, yeah yeah, we're very, um, we're very willing to explore new ways to develop ourselves, to develop our, our friendship with each other, because I think that you, you lose that you, you think that kids are going to be the thing that keeps you together and, like, for me, I'm always like. I texted him last night and I just said I love you and I'm proud of you. Because who tells you that, like, when you become an adult, you know you and you don't have the kids to tell that too. So sometimes that language gets lost and I, really, I I try to like, build us up and create this like friendship that is so rock solid, because it really is, and it's not just like this facade of like, oh, this great, you know couple who doesn't have kids, who gets to do this and gets to do that, like there's times that become lonely too, and and I think it's important to recognize both of them.
Speaker 1:I bet he's really proud of you. Yes, watching you turn your pain into purpose like this and be a light for other people has to be like that's my girl, because not everybody does that.
Speaker 2:I mean, a lot of people can allow the pain to take them over, and then they're underneath it to such an extent that it sort of calcifies and there you are, you know, and so for you to not only figure this out, but to be like I'm not just gonna figure this out, I'm gonna be like the spokesperson for this shit.
Speaker 1:You know that's pretty badass, thank you, yeah, he is, um, he's dentist, so he's talking to people all day long, or you know. It's like when you go to the dentist and they ask you a question, you can't answer. How annoying that is. That's how I met him. He was my dentist and I fell in love with him. Yes, I found every excuse to keep going back there.
Speaker 2:I was like teeth whitening this, this, um, yeah so you walk in there and that's the most like vulnerable, unattractive, you're like ah right and you're loving this guy. You're thinking he's hot, like how did you end up?
Speaker 1:well, we, we live in chicago and as big of a city as chicago is, we ended up running into each other out one night and I was with another guy who was like a random date that I knew wasn't going anywhere and I'm like, oh shit, the one time I see him out of the office where I have my chance. I got this guy with me. So I trotted over, I said to the guy I was with I was like I'll be right back, I'm going to the bathroom and I trotted over to Dr Jack and I was like hi and he was like, introduced to me, my friend, to his friends, like oh, this is my patient, lana.
Speaker 1:And then I was like, well, I gotta go my cousin's in from out of town and you know, we're going to meet some friends. And so we bolted because he's Jack, my husband is super friendly guy. I could see him coming over and being like how are you related? So, uh, we left. And then a couple weeks later I went to the same place and he happened to be there again and we left. And then a couple weeks later I went to the same place and he happened to be there again and we left together and went and we got a bottle of wine and we sat on Ohio Street Beach in Chicago. They had this like big lifeguard chair and just hung out until like 4 am. And yeah, that was history, that's right girl.
Speaker 1:You're like you walked over there and you're like, do you remember these two? That's right girl, that's right baby. He's funny because he'll be like I can't remember anyone's name until I see their teeth and I'm like, oh, I remember this person, they're mine, thank you, they're beautiful. They almost look like they could be the nearest you. You know, teeth are genetic like. My sister is a patient of my husband's too and he's like, oh my gosh, when your sister comes in, you guys have such similar teeth. And I was like, oh, I didn't realize teeth were kind of a genetic trait, yeah, so anyway, we could go on and on about dentistry.
Speaker 1:I was like I am not letting this guy get out the door thinking I got a boyfriend, um, but yeah, I still remember these cute little like eyelet white shorts and a tank top. This was gosh 2000. We got married in 09. This would have been like 2006 yeah, always, yeah, 2006. Yeah, always, yeah, I am. Yeah, I left.
Speaker 1:I worked in the medical device field. I was a sales rep for a large medical device company for 20 years and I was doing both. In 2021 is when I started the podcast and I finished my life coach certification and push came to shove. I was turning 50 in May of last year and I was like this is my time, like people are like 50, wah, wah. I was like I can't wait to be 50. So I gave my resignation the night before my 50th and I've been doing this since July of last year. Yeah, totally, totally, I don't think twice about it. Yeah, I gave him three months notice because you know I care. You know that was my baby, my job was my baby, my territory. You know, if you're a sales rep, it's like you nurture those relationships and there's you get personal, you get invited to their kids' birthday parties and events and I didn't want to leave my customers high and dry, and I gave them three months' notice and I haven't looked back.
Speaker 1:I'm just so happy I'm doing this work, but also it frees me up to be more available to the people that need it. So I have clients in Australia now and the time zone before if I was working, I couldn't take on people that were not in my same time zone because the time difference. Now I have clients internationally. I can do things in the middle of the day where I couldn't do that when I was working. Are they all women who didn't have children? Yes, yeah, I sometimes will have people come to me that are kind of in the midst of not sure what's next and I'll kind of help understand. Like, are you sure you want to stop? If you don't want to stop, I have people that I can refer you to. There's coaches that help women as they're going through treatment. But yeah, for me it's really important to support the women who know that they're moving forward without kids.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so is the lion's share of what you're doing, the actual coaching component. So you're author, podcast host, coach yes.
Speaker 1:Is that?
Speaker 2:like the big need of it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, well, I also founded something called the Others Day Brunch yeah, so I started that four years ago, in 2022. It's an event the day before Mother's Day. It happens in Chicago and it's for women who don't have kids for whatever reason, women who might still be going through treatment, who you know Mother's Day feels hard for them, women who've lost their mom or don't have an active mother figure in their life. So it's kind of a pan reason that you might feel called to be connected during Mother's Day weekend. So people come from all over. I've had people from Puerto Rico, massachusetts, florida, texas. Like people will fly in, people that follow me on social media and they're like I want to do this and I have such admiration. Like people get on an airplane to come and spend two and a half hours in Chicago with a group of women to feel as though they were connected. Like that is badass. Well, and that also tells you something you know it's very much needed and you should do the other thing, like you could branch that out and city to city. Yeah, I do have some people who are ambassadors, but I'm really particular about how it's handled. I am working on the trademark for it now. We're in the final processes of that.
Speaker 1:God, that's been a process, yeah, but yeah, I mean I like that people come in for it, because there's something really special about meeting people from all walks of life and people that come from different parts of the US. I mean, hopefully internationally one day, but I really love the fact that people advocate for themselves and they say I need this. To me, that is such a testament of how you're showing up for yourself, because I think we're not taught how to show up for yourself and go after what you need. There's so much of life that I think passes us by because we're like, oh, it'll be weird, or oh, I don't know anyone, or oh, you know, like what are people going to think that I need this for myself? So, yeah, the others day brunch is happening May 10th in Chicago. So that's my vision. Yeah, it's happening May 10th in Chicago.
Speaker 2:That's my vision.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yes, I totally want it to be like a wellness, personal development, focus on yourself, get what you need, like I have visions of, like sound baths and yoga and speakers. You know, not just me. Yeah, girl, I love that. Yeah, there you go. No em dashes, don't you hate that. There you go. No M dashes, don't you hate that? Okay, I've got to say like, since ChatGPT came along, the use of the dash, I felt like, was so unique to me, like I always used dashes instead of commas, and now everyone is using these fucking dashes and I'm'm like that is not yours. It's irritating. Yeah, I love chat gbd, don't get me wrong. When I do my podcast, I take my script and I throw it in there and it does my show notes and all that and it's made my life better, but I just get really pissed off about the dashes. Yeah, I'm a dash girl.
Speaker 2:Okay, so someone's out there listening right now. Their ears are perked up. Out there listening right now, their ears are perked up Is there anything else that you want to say?
Speaker 1:You know, I created a really good resource that a lot of people have found valuable. It's called the top 27 things people say when you're childless and how to respond, because I think when you get those questions of how many kids do you have, or you're at a work event, you're meeting a new group of people and everyone's talking about their kids or question you. So I would advise people. It's a free download on my website, londonmanikowskicom. It's really helpful too if you're on the other side of things and you're like I'm working with someone going through infertility. What are some things I should avoid saying. So I would say that is a really great tool to have, whether you're on the infertility side or the friend and advocate side.
Speaker 1:Yes, lanamanikowski, if you can spell my last name, I know she's just happy to be here. Yes, now we get to drive back five hours. She loves the car, so we're going to go for a ride. Yes, oh, I'm so glad to be here time. Go follow Lana and keep moving. Aww, see, she knows when things are over. That's such a great way to end the show when I finish my calls.
Speaker 2:Oh my God, she's so sweet.
