The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
All In or Get Out: Troy Allen from Rise Brands on Reputation, Reinvention & What's Next
Let’s just call it like it is—Troy Allen has a reputation. Some people call him a visionary. Others? An a**hole.
On this week’s episode, I sit down with the man behind Pins, 16-Bit, and some of the biggest nightlife and entertainment concepts in Columbus and beyond. Troy’s been building incredible brands people actually feel for decades—and he’s not afraid to ruffle feathers along the way.
We talk about the highs, the hits, and the hard truths that come with being known as a controversial leader. From losing his marriage and shutting down concepts, to reinventing brands and confronting depression head-on, Troy opens up about his reputation, how he’s evolved, and what he’s learned from both failure and success.
And for everyone asking—yes, we get into the future of The Bogey project. But I'm not spilling the tea here—you'll have to tune in for that 😉.
This conversation is raw, real, and full of the kind of unfiltered honesty you don’t get from most business leaders. Whether you think Troy’s misunderstood or just brutally direct, you’ll hear a side of him you’ve never seen before.
Because at the end of the day, building big shit isn’t about playing nice—it’s about being all in or getting out.
Hey there you beautiful badass. Welcome to the Keri Croft Show. I'm your host, keri Croft, delivering you stories that get you pumped up and feeling like the unstoppable savage that you are. So grab your coffee, put on your game face and let's do this thing, baby face and let's do this thing, baby.
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Speaker 2:And how, so though I don't know. Are you talking name In?
Speaker 1:general, like when you you know a brand is a vibe, so what's your?
Speaker 2:No, I mean you guys. So I've been trying to figure out what your end goal with all this is for a while now.
Speaker 2:Yes, because it has evolved you and everybody else no, but it has evolved and and and I, like the, the production level has gone up, like the. You know, I go back and I look at some of the early stuff and now you guys are doing a lot of little promo things and and and. So now I, I, the brand is you, um, the. I think you guys do a good job with it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but keep cause, because we're. This is a big conversation right now about, you know, I leave SOS, sell my interest and I, before I left SOS, I started the show. So I think that was kind of like the subconscious, like me, kind of moving away and like just doing something fun to figure it out Right. And to the outside person it's like what is she into? Like she's talking about surrogacy, she's talking about, you know, business. We got hip-hop artists on. So like what is that what your perception is?
Speaker 2:It's eclectic.
Speaker 1:Yeah, but I like that.
Speaker 2:I think if you focus on one topic all the time, uh, I think things can get stale over time and I think you also don't know what a guest is going to bring coming into it. So I think the, the more variety that you have and I mean the energy is always great, but my here's. My question, though, is is why did you want to do the first one, like what, what made you do it? And and and? How'd you get to the guest of the first one?
Speaker 1:So why did I do it? I always, I've always interviewed people in my head and I've always listened to Howard Stern Like I just love the art of what he does and I love I have a genuine curiosity about human beings and I think, along with that, I was just. I wanted to have fun just sitting with someone like I. So with SOS, I loved it. It was such a great climb.
Speaker 1:It was a decade of just like community and like grit, and we did a lot of things right, did a lot of things wrong, but I always felt like very caged in. I always felt like when people would come in, I'd be like, but I won't, I don't want to talk to you about a burpee I don't want to talk to you about. I want to talk to you about so many other things and I always felt like, well, they just see me as like this fitness person and that I did love. I love fitness, but I always I felt like I was already outgrowing that part of it a long time ago. Okay, all right. So my genuine curiosity is just wanting to sit down with people and that's that's probably why I did the Keri Cross show a great way to create awareness, kind of figure out what I want to do and just be me and just like this is all the stuff I'm into.
Speaker 2:So would you consider yourself a creative?
Speaker 1:Oh yeah. But, I'm also. I'm like the hybrid. I'm a creative, but I'm also like an operational person to an extent. So I definitely um, I merged those worlds for sure.
Speaker 2:I get that 1000% I so I've always been on the creative side, but I'm one of the few creatives that understand the business side as well, which I never realized that that wasn't really a thing, because, I mean, to me, people are very divided when it comes to that. On the creative side, I love everything about you know doing stuff new or thinking what's next, but a lot of times people that think that way can't understand the business side of how to grow something.
Speaker 2:And so, for me, it's this, it's this balance where, if I don't have both like I don't know if I just have one or the other if it would be enough yeah, I have to have both.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because I I geek out on things like I geek out on certain numbers, certain like wanting, like analytics, figuring things out, solving problems like the, the couple that like I'm doing, basically like the modern day business consulting stuff with the b lab, okay, um, so we have like six prototypes that we, like the beginner blocked brand gap, brave shift build out, um, and you know, we have a clarity quiz. You can go in, you can. It's all very new. This is we're not even like, our website isn't even done yet. So those are the beat, those are the prototypes.
Speaker 1:Like, if you go do the clarity quiz, like, oh, troy, you're, uh, you're blocked, and then we, we go through, we figure out, and then there's a bottleneck is the other one. So there's a couple in there and you know they're struggling with basic business stuff. You know, first of all, financials are the lifeblood of your business. If your financials aren't working, nothing's working. So you got to like, you got to triage that. But then when you have no brand clarity, your user experience is a two out of 10. Right, but see, I love, I love the operational part of like trying to help them Rubik's cube through that. But then I also love the design. I'm a design snob about everything which gets me in a real problem.
Speaker 2:So you're doing the consulting stuff too, then as well.
Speaker 1:So what happened was when I was doing the show I didn't want to do anything. I'm like what do I do? Go do like another fitness place, that's basic. Like I'm going to go compete with Gretchen and like be no, I don't want to do that. If I did another fitness thing, it would be like later and it would be something that I, that's not in the city, that is evolved. You know, there's so much to be desired here. But I guess I had a moment where I was like well, what do I do? Well, and what did I do for SOS? Like, basically, I met Gretchen she was, you know, had a couple of clients, couldn't figure out how to like communicate it Like it was. I'm like, hey, I'll, I'll exchange you, like I'll give you business advice for a free train, you know. So I basically like was taking the Christmas lights, you know, and I'm like that's what I'm good, like that's what I want to do, is like that Right. And so that's kind of what I'm doing now with the B lab.
Speaker 1:I got very exciting Enough about me. Troy Allen, welcome to the Keri Croft show. Thank you, glad to be here.
Speaker 2:It's great to have you. Yeah, sorry, I canceled once already.
Speaker 1:That's okay, I'm analyzing you. I am very impressed with your outfit. It's pretty basic but it's very, it's basic and it's almost like it's urban cool, it's working for you and you're taller than what I thought.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I'm shrinking as I get older.
Speaker 1:How tall are you?
Speaker 2:I would say I used to be 6'1" but I'm probably 6' now.
Speaker 1:Oh, come on, You're not like an old man. You don't shrink until you're like what 60?.
Speaker 2:Well, I'm pushing it. I mean I'm 53. You live clean. Well, that depends on what clean is. Do you work out? I do a lot more now. I would say the last year I've started to refocus on that a lot more where I think, as I was growing my business, I kind of let all that get away from me for a while. So, yes, I do work out pretty much every morning. You look pretty tight, yeah.
Speaker 1:You look pretty tight, yeah, you look pretty fit. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 2:Well, that's funny, because if you would have seen me a year ago so people haven't seen me in some time like I get that all the time now I would say At my heaviest I was probably 305. Stop it, yeah. And so right now I'm 210. And that's probably over the last year and a half two years.
Speaker 1:You doing a lot of weights.
Speaker 2:I do a lot of free weights. Yeah, I do a lot of free weights.
Speaker 1:Isn't it funny how a lot of successful people will go balls to the wall with the business side making money. They get so obsessed and they completely leave the most precious valuable parts of life to the wolves.
Speaker 2:I'm all in or all out on everything.
Speaker 1:You're an extremist. Yes.
Speaker 2:And so if I'm in on something, I obsess about it and I don't stop, but if I'm on the fence, I just I can't. I have to be all in or all out, and so, yeah, as you look at the journey of my career, my life and kind of where, I am now.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to figure out if I want to be all in or all out. Still Are we all trying to figure that out?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean my whole goal in life, I think, for the last 20 years, was always just to replace myself.
Speaker 1:Yeah Right, you haven't done that yet I'm getting close.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm getting close, let's talk about the bogey first, oh, you say that is like, oh, so, ok, so was that something like for years you'd like look at that and go, man, that's, that's got to be like a cash cow, or I would love to like. I used to always in my mind think I always want to know how much money they made during the memorial and then how much they made otherwise. And then when they close it, I was like what the hell? It's the bogey, it's a staple. And then you swoop in Like how did all that happen?
Speaker 2:So, first off, I never wanted to be a bar or restaurant owner. I know.
Speaker 1:I heard that on Conquering Columbus. I was like, well, sorry about it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so no. So with the bogey I live up that way. I live in Dublin, I mean I go to the tournament every year and I know the bogey for the last 20 years, as it changed ownership and kind of kept struggling there for a while and was open and closed. I was asked several times for a lot of years to do something with it or come in, and my answer was always hell, no, absolutely not, I don't want to do it.
Speaker 2:And we have been developing a golf concept now for the last five years and that with a combination of another concept we were working on and then the bogey opportunity came up and so for me it was. It was kind of merging two things and doing it under the bogey brand. Everything we do is is nostalgia driven and when you think of, you know the history and the nostalgia behind the bogey and and for. So for me to to be able to bring that back and do something better and kind of reinvent it was it gets me excited because we really excited. That site is a bit of a problem, which is why it hasn't been built on it for so long and it's been a struggle to kind of redevelop up there.
Speaker 1:Why is it a problem?
Speaker 2:Well, the you have multiple municipalities, so, uh, you have Shawnee Hills, you have Dublin, you have Delaware County, uh, when it comes to the utilities, and then you have the city of Columbus, when it comes to the roads, and so that our plot of land, where we were, we were doing the project, it's actually on Shawnee Hills in Dublin, um, but so instead of us going, you know, like, when we build in the project, it's actually on Shawnee Hills in Dublin. So, instead of us going, you know, like, when we build in Bridge Park, that's all Dublin, or we build in another market, you're working with one municipality and you're working together. This one, it's four, and so trying to get everyone to agree on stuff or come together, or one wants this, the other one wants that, and it's like, okay, then who's going to pay for it? Uh, so that has not been an easy project, of course, and so so, yeah, the I'm so excited about that project. Uh, I don't know if it's going to happen or not.
Speaker 2:To be honest, oh, you don't, no, and that's the thing is because I I get this question all the time and this will be the first time I'm actually talking about it um, the, so we're close.
Speaker 2:uh, it's just the math doesn't work anymore. Uh, for what we have to put into it and what the original budget was everything that we have to do. We always look at our projects as a certain amount of your payback that we're going to get, and right now this is double what is in our normal pro forma, and so it doesn't paper anymore.
Speaker 1:The math ain't mathin' no it's not.
Speaker 2:I still believe in the concept, I believe in the bogey. We'll see if it happens there and if it happens under that brand. Uh, but it's, it's not a, it's not an idea and something we've been working on for so long that I'm gonna, I'm gonna let die damn.
Speaker 1:Yeah, what's the golf concept?
Speaker 2:you're working on. Well, that's what evolved into the bogey worked on several different entertainment concepts. The golf one, I mean, when we started out you had the puttery, putt shack, golf-centric, top golf. All kind of come into the entertainment space and they all blew up really quick For us. Pop stroke is Tiger Woods' concept.
Speaker 2:It's a big putty one. No one's gone up against them yet. And again, I think in that realm the top golfs and the pop strokes are very tech-driven, and so I feel like they've lost personality and they lost the game and the nostalgia behind it, and so, with what we do, we really focus in on that, and so our concept was more about the personality.
Speaker 2:It was more about leading in to country clubs while poking fun at them and being more analog than tech, and so it was kind of it's taking everything back to how it was, and that's just how it is how we do things. Everything comes back around. I just don't always think it has to be tech driven.
Speaker 1:Do you see the landline thing that's coming out?
Speaker 2:The landline thing For kids.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I want to know who. I haven't had a chance to like perv into like who did it, but probably some geek in basement somewhere, but it's called like the landline.
Speaker 2:Okay.
Speaker 1:And it's a it's a landline phone that they're like connecting so kids can talk.
Speaker 2:Oh, really Mm-hmm. Is it just going to connect through the?
Speaker 1:internet. I don't I mean probably Huh, but it's going to be. Yeah, it's kind of like an old bringing back the old school. You'd probably be interested in it Again, everything in the background, because it's going to be hot this. It's going to be hot this holiday for sure. How would you describe your childhood? In like a sentence.
Speaker 2:You said growing up? Well, right, Um, I was, uh, I was a coach's son and so, um, you know, everyone loved my dad and my dad was amazing, but he was really hard on me and so I always just saw my dad as the coach and and so you know, we didn't come from much very blue collar family, Uh, but I would say I had a lot of expectations of kind of doing more or expectations when it came to sports, and I think sports had burned me out early.
Speaker 2:Were you a good athlete I was and that was the weirdest thing, especially through junior high and high school, is because I was an athlete, but I was also the kid who could draw and be creative, and so I had this crossover of like two groups that normally wouldn't come together and be friends, but I was. I was kind of friends with both and so it allowed me to kind of see both worlds what'd you play? Uh, I played. Baseball was my number one sport and and then football and basketball.
Speaker 1:What did you like to draw?
Speaker 2:Back then I used to do a lot of portraits and it's funny because this actually came up a couple weeks ago. You can do really detailed realistic portraits and paintings, and the last time that I drew has been years I mean, we're talking probably 15, 20 years and I'm almost scared to try because I feel like I wouldn't be able to do it anymore and so it's like one of those things. But yeah, I used to draw all the time.
Speaker 1:See, I'm surprised that you haven't had like a creative pull to want to get a canvas or something and just draw or piece of paper or something.
Speaker 2:It's different now. I mean so like when now, like when I'm concepting or thinking of new things. It's just, it's also computer now and and it just I get more into that design mode where you know, and I can imagine that's a grind of an industry.
Speaker 1:I mean clearly there's pros and cons to everything. I mean alcohol margins have to be pretty healthy. What is it?
Speaker 2:70%, 80%, something like that yeah, between 70 and 80.
Speaker 1:What was this last year? Like I know, you closed 16-bit downtown. That had to be hard right.
Speaker 2:It was, that was the first concept that we did as rice brands. How?
Speaker 1:long until? Like how long were you guys flailing there? Or what? Talk to me about the thought process. When did you start to see it go sideways? And what? Give me a little back?
Speaker 2:well, story on that thing is that it was still a profitable business.
Speaker 2:Um, but the that area like just south forth I mean it's not what it was eight years ago and with redevelopment that was happening over there, we were on a month-to-month lease and a lot of our other we had 16-bit. We did pins and so as we started to expand they started to be side-by-side and then they started to kind of merge together and so a lot of our like our Cincinnati location, our Charlotte location we actually rolled 16-bit into our Pins locations. So it was like kind of one experience and we haven't done that yet here in town we still have the freestanding 16-bit in Columbus and we have one in Indianapolis. It was just time it was. You know, it wasn't making the money that it used to, but for me it wasn't making the money that it used to, but for me that wasn't important.
Speaker 2:It was such a community thing and it was such a it was infancy of kind of what we did and what got us started, and so it was tough. It was tough to let that one go. Yeah, I can imagine, A lot tougher than I thought, but it was just time. That area is just struggling right now and it does need redeveloped.
Speaker 1:Do you make any money on the food?
Speaker 2:So we don't have food.
Speaker 1:You don't have any food, no snacks. You have Mikey's, come in to like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so Mikey's is at our Easton location and at our Dublin location. They're going to be close to us in Dayton now as well. We opened up there a few months ago.
Speaker 1:I was going to say you have to have something for somebody to eat.
Speaker 2:Well, no, but that's the thing. That was one of the things that was kind of ingenious about what we did. So when you look at the margins, okay, most bars they have food or they show sporting events because they want you to stay there longer yeah.
Speaker 2:Okay, and so you drink more. And so when we provide the entertainment side of it, you know our average guest will stay two to two and a half hours. I can calculate down to the minute like what it means to us financially. And so we don't need to do the food because the margins aren't as good.
Speaker 1:God, and it takes it yeah, it takes it all that, all complexity out of there.
Speaker 2:And so for us, it was let's focus on this side of it, provide a really good experience, keep people there and allow people to bring food in, you know? I mean, that's why people can order in. That's why we, we support all the bricks and mortar that's around us. Uh, if not, we'll do food truck programs. Um, for us it just wasn't part of the business side of it, so we stayed away from it.
Speaker 1:You don't make money on the games, or do you make money on the games?
Speaker 2:So we make money on on some of them. So we charge for the duck pin bowling. Um, we used to charge 50 cents for pinball and all the video games were free. All the video games are still free, a lot of the activities and stuff are free, but now we charge, I think, a dollar for pinball. So we pinball we charge for and the duck pin bowling we charge for what are?
Speaker 1:what has been the? Because you said something about surviving and that, like the last year, has been tough, right. So what get like for somebody who's out there and they're want to open a bar or they're, they're in the throes of it and they're like shit.
Speaker 2:This is hard, like what are you experiencing? Yeah, I mean so the this is the first year and I forget how many years now where, when you look at alcohol consumption, it's decreased and so it has every year. It goes up, up, up, up. This is the first year it's really decreased and people are drinking less. And so when you look at, you know, low proof, no proof, thc those are all categories now that are that are expanding, and so it it's a little misleading because people be like well, thc or my low proof menu has grown 20% over the last year. Yeah, it's 20%, but it's also maybe 4% of your overall business. But that's where things are going, and so you have to have those options.
Speaker 2:Now the entire industry is, I'd say, down 10% to 15%, okay, on the hospitality side is, I'd say, down 10 to 15 percent. Ok, on the hospitality side, we're, we're ahead of that. I mean, we're down probably six to eight percent, but it's still when you look at year over year numbers and you see that it gets demoralizing, and so we've, we've reforecast it and and it's just, people aren't going out as much, not drinking as much as they used to, but, but again, it's for our business, it's still drinking as much, um uh as they used to, but uh, but again, it's for our business. It's still a very profitable, successful business.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean, I think, as the world's on tilt people are, you know there's a lot of people are just out there surviving, you know. So maybe going to pins may not be as easy as it was before. I don't know. I mean I feel like the world's just nuts.
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of that. But I also think that the people started demanding more out of, you know, entertainment and bars and restaurants. When we first did it we came in early before there was like eat-ertainment as they call it now, and so it was pretty easy to kind of reinvent the space and find a niche and do things that were more brand-ric. You know, I mean we surround people with our brand and nothing else, you know, from the music to everything else that you hear and see. We want it to be an experience and we're very dialed in on that. It's just over time. You know the people demand more. So you look at in the entertainment space how many more concepts are out there, how much even restaurants you go to. Now it's a different experience. I just think there's more out there for people and people got so much more demanding on what they want on a night out or an experience, and I think that's all a good thing, but there's just a lot more competition.
Speaker 1:What's your music philosophy?
Speaker 2:That's a huge debate within our stores. Every market's different. I always think the music has to be a bit upbeat or more nostalgic bass, where it's like you hear that song you haven't heard for 10 years and you just want to dance to it. But again, it depends on the market. What we don't like is when things start to skew toward, like our management teams of they have a personal taste and they start to infuse that. It still has to be on brand and it still has to be about the people that are there and what they want to hear.
Speaker 2:So I'm a rock guy and so for me it's you know, I love the Black Keys, I love, you know, more music like that.
Speaker 1:That to me is more, it's wider I thought you're a beastie boys guy too. I'm beastie boys guy too. What's your favorite beastie boy song?
Speaker 2:so what you, what you, what you want no oh, I love that song so my mine was probably yeah, like the, the for me that that's a hard, it's a hard hitter yeah, it was the first time, like it's like rock and rap kind of came together, yeah, and so, yeah, every market's different for us when it comes to the music, and it's always a debate within our stores.
Speaker 1:Are you a ball buster? You feel like a ball buster to me.
Speaker 2:Yes, I am.
Speaker 1:So you said, like you gave me this softball, which I would have asked you anyway, like you said, people would call you an asshole.
Speaker 2:Oh without question.
Speaker 1:So, and this softball which I would have asked you anyway, like you said, people will call you an asshole. Oh, without question. So, and I looked up online. There's a couple of things out there like you know, a little trolling. I'm like damn, they're trolling, but we get that, people get that right, especially when you're successful and you're known like. You get like this, the way you're perceived in the streets, you know. So why the asshole? Like what is? I think just from like, just so everyone knows. I've only known you now for what? 20 minutes in person, right? Yes, the energy is very like stealthy, it was quiet, but I just think your tolerance for bullshit is probably like really small.
Speaker 2:It is. I like to say I'm honest to a fault, because I'll say whatever's on my mind and a lot of times that gets me in trouble. I would also say that I'm very hard charging. I have very high standards and I don't lower them often, and so I'm a tough person to work for. I would also say that I'm a very different person to work for now than I was 10 years ago. I look back, you know, like how I would just bowl in a china shop like come in and say this is how we're going to do it, this is how things are going to be, and that's just how I would run the business. That's evolved and that's changed Now. Was I that person? Yeah, without question. Am I still that person? Yeah, without question. Am I still that person? Yeah, without question. I think I've just learned now how it affects other people and and you know, you have to have both- so in the last 10 years, what was a moment that you can remember?
Speaker 1:where you, that you were like okay, I just learned from that.
Speaker 2:I mean shit. I don't get surprised by much. I really get surprised by anything, because I look at every angle and I overanalyze everything. For me it was two things at once. And then there was a third one that humbled me. So COVID happened. Did not see that coming, did not expect in three days to have to close all of our businesses and lay everyone off. In three days to have to close all of our businesses and lay everyone off During all that, I got divorced and I didn't see that coming either. And so for me it was these two things that were major things in your life. That and again, I'm a planner. I plan for everything. I can look back and I can understand both now, but at that time it was a no-fuck moment for me. I didn't see this stuff coming and it was like move on, continue being there for the family, the business, regrow the business. But then we had a concept called Weenie Wonder.
Speaker 1:I love it.
Speaker 2:I still believe in the brand. I believe in the concept. We were horrible operators that's why we don't do food, but when I decided to close that, because we had two locations, that's where Mikey's is now at.
Speaker 2:Dublin and Easton, and then we had a third one under construction and we just weren't delivering the product that we set out to do. And so I'll never forget, when we closed it, I had an all company meeting where I would show, you know, our marketing materials of like what this Chicago dog is supposed to look like. And then the day before I went, and I was the last person to order at our Dublin location and I took a picture of what I was served and it was two totally different things and it was it's like this is not who we are, like we're out here marketing this. We, you know, we have great experiences, we train.
Speaker 2:You know, coming out of COVID, it was a tough time to employ people. I mean, we had people making $24 an hour, you know, working on a, on a line and so, closing that, I think it's the first time that I developed something that failed, like it failed and and and that was tough. And I think when I, when I closed that a lot of stuff that I went through during COVID and my divorce and I never dealt with it all hit at once and I got to a really dark spot, like it's a really dark place, cause I felt like the biggest failure in the world. Those three major things all kind of happened at the same time.
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Speaker 2:So I look back and I get it now. I totally see it now. Um, the the way that I just wasn't present. Um, I was growing the business and so at the time, um, we were building locations in nashville and charlotte and so, and they had timing worked out where they were overlapping, which is not what we normally do.
Speaker 2:So I was gone a lot and you and you know I, I come home, you know, on on the weekends and I'd be so exhausted that I just didn't want to do anything. And you know my, my, my wife, you know she, she was with the kids all week. We had two young kids, and so at that moment she's like, all right, let's go to this event or this party or this and that. And I was just like I just want to lay down and do nothing. And so I get it now. Um, I just I wasn't there for her. It's like I, I'm all in or all out. I was all in on the business. I thought everything I was doing was I'm supposed to support the family, provide for the family. And yeah, in the end it was. It was, I think, two days before Christmas. It was. Yeah, I don't want to do this anymore. I'm out and I was like, Didn't see that one coming. But I, I fully understand that.
Speaker 1:Are you single?
Speaker 2:After my divorce I did get into another relationship for quite a while, but I'd say now for the last, probably year, year and a half, you know I'll date- but, I purposely try to spend time by myself.
Speaker 1:Well, do you know that I also in my repertoire of skills that I'm a low-key matchmaker as well?
Speaker 2:Uh-oh yeah, good luck with this one. I mean no, no, for me it's something that just hasn't been important, right?
Speaker 1:now. Yeah, no, I think it's probably good for you to spend time alone. Do you know? There's a statistic, and like when I say this, don't you ever wonder like who these people are? People be like. Well, statistics show that you know 32. I'm like people can just make this shit up, but there is a statistic out there currently floating around that single women live longer than married women and they're much happier and, conversely, married men live longer and are much happier.
Speaker 2:Married men are much happier. Yes, oh, wow.
Speaker 1:What do you think that says about the male species versus the female species?
Speaker 2:Oh, I have so many things I want to say right now that they're all inappropriate.
Speaker 1:That's what this show is about. That's what this show is about.
Speaker 2:I would say that I think that shows that men are more patient and will deal with more. Yeah Right.
Speaker 1:Men are weenie wonders yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I can kind of see that. And again I would say, ever since I was in high school, I can't remember many times where I wasn't in a relationship like a long relationship, and so this last year and a half has been it again it's it. I've worked on myself. I've, you know, dealt with a lot of stuff, but I yeah, I think for the last year and a half I've just been undateable.
Speaker 1:Just for shits and giggles.
Speaker 2:What's your type? Uh, I've just been undateable, Just for shits and giggles. What's your type? So tall women scare me so typically.
Speaker 1:So me being 5'9", almost 5'10" and Kate being 5'10" does not bode well for us.
Speaker 2:That's the funny thing, though, is after my divorce. I was in a relationship for about two years to someone who was 5'10" and so typically it's blonde hair, more petite, athletic, not all the dolled up stuff. I still like to be able to go hike and then go to dinner, so I used to have a very specific type, but that's changed over the.
Speaker 1:Why do tall women scare you?
Speaker 2:Growing up, it was just something you, they just like. Growing up, it was just something. I don't know what it was like. Uh, it's. That's the intimidation thing for me, are you?
Speaker 1:intimidated by me at all, not even close, like when you first met me downstairs. You weren't like oh, she's scary, she's no, no, I don't.
Speaker 2:I don't. I don't get intimidated by many people um the, and I think a lot of times, if I'll work myself up on something, it's not the other person it's me doing it. But no, no, I, I, I've listened to this enough and you've interviewed enough people that I know that I, I knew it was going to be good, I knew I wasn't going to like attack you.
Speaker 1:So what kind of dad like are you? Are you a hard charger dad too Like? You said that your dad like was kind of hard on you. How has that transcended into you being a parent, and what are you trying to really watch for?
Speaker 2:So I would say I'm probably three times worse than my dad. I'm, I'm tough, I'm, I'm tough. You know, the, the, the, my kids always know where they stand. But it's, it's pretty black or white with me. But you know, I also realized early on again, I think I've evolved over the last five years but I tried to coach my, my son, in football and in basketball and I realized really quick that I don't have the temperament for that, like I, I, I can't like. And I then I realized, like my dad growing up, how awesome he was at it. Uh, cause, there's just no way I could do it. Um, I think I lasted one season and I was like I'm never doing this again.
Speaker 1:Do you get angry or?
Speaker 2:are you?
Speaker 1:like too stressed out, or what's your demeanor out there?
Speaker 2:Angry is a good word To me, it's not a stress thing. It's like I don't like to lose and I don't like when someone's not prepared, and so if they're failing, I feel like I'm failing, and so, yeah, I motivate through fear sometimes and so, yeah, I'm just not a good coach. But, yes, I'm hard on my kids. My son just he's first year at University of Kentucky, which I think is awesome because you know he's been through a lot the last five years. You know the divorce and everything else like that. And so for him to go be on his own now and have to figure it out and uh, like I was really looking forward to him going away and having to kind of do this uh, they just kind of had a more sheltered life than I did growing up.
Speaker 1:Well, yeah, yeah, of course. One more thing about your ex-wife. Yeah, are you guys good now, like now that you've reflected and you're like, hey, I realize that, like I see where you're coming from, kind of thing, because not everybody gets there with their exes.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, I'm not fully there. Yeah, I will also say that we're both very different people now and we're not who. We met each other 28 years ago now. We met each other, yeah, 28 years ago now. Um, the and you know, she's very different person than than she was when we were married. I'm a very different person, um, so I I guess she's the most amazing mom in the world, like, she is absolutely amazing. She's. She's a great person. She's just not the person I know anymore, and so it's it's.
Speaker 2:It's tough for me to react to that Like would I be friends with her if I just knew her now? Yeah, probably without question, but I have this long history and you know the ups and the downs of it. But no, we still co-parent really good. I know how to push her buttons, she knows how to push my buttons, and so you know we'll go a long time without talking and then, if I ever needed something, she'd be there in a heartbeat. If she ever needed something, I'd be there in a heartbeat, but yeah yeah, different people now.
Speaker 1:So what do you do in terms of, like you said, you spent some more time alone and you've been like self-reflecting what have you done, what kind of work on yourself and like specifics.
Speaker 2:So I've every year, I will always do a trip on my own, and so it's. It's something that usually it's after, typically at the beginning of the year, but I'll need to go away and truly reset and like plan the year to come, and so I've been, you know, specific and of doing that every year.
Speaker 2:And I think over the last several years it it's not a once a year thing anymore, like if I, if I find myself getting to a low point or I find myself kind of losing my energy or kind of my fire, um, I'll, I'll go away, and so I'll I'll. I mean, I've gone to, uh, places like the ranch um, which is a health and wellness place you can go to and you just eat right for the week and work out and you do all this health and spiritual stuff I've done another place called Pritikin down in Miami. Um, I either need to be out in the woods in the middle of nowhere, like by myself, trying to survive, or I need to be in a very structured program that if I don't show up for a class or I don't go to a workout or I don't like I, I need to be very regimented so when you say trying to survive, you get like a 10 out there and just like plop yourself in the wilderness and yeah, I wouldn't go that far.
Speaker 2:I wish I could do that. Um, I, I used to do that a lot more than I do now. Um, but but that's what I like, I, I, I like the isolation, like, uh, you know, when I hear people, you know they they go do the week with, like in dark and like not talking, like I, I live for that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:Like in the dark, though, you would do.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I would do that. I would try anything once. Um no, I like that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:I'm into, like the trip alone. I think that's a luxury that most people would love, right, I think that's cool. I think the dark thing I'd be bored. I'd be like what the hell? I talked to that guy that did it, that came to RTRX last year. He was in the dark for, like you know, so we were all asking him a bunch of questions and you know.
Speaker 2:So we were all asking him a bunch of questions and, you know, maybe after a day I'd be like screw this, I'm not doing it anymore, but I you don't know until you try it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's true.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I just I think it's it to me, it's you're, you're, you're trying to push your limits on something, and it's not comfort, but it's, it's knowing that you conquered it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, when you say you went into a really like dark place before. How long did that last? And like would you say you were in a full fledged depression? Did you have anxiety?
Speaker 2:I don't think I had anxiety, but you know for me to say that, you know I was. I had depression, I was depressed. It's a tough one, but but yeah, no, I was I, I was, I was in a very dark place. I was in a very dark place. I mean, there was there's one thing about getting up and not feeling motivated in the morning, but like getting up and I didn't want to get out of bed.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean, I think there was one period where probably four days, like, I didn't leave my house, you know, and I just it just got to a really dark place.
Speaker 2:Now what I've realized is, you know, one, I got help with that, uh. Two, I talked to people about it and and so you know, I'm fortunate one to have really good friends and then to have some networks that allow me to be able to talk and share things the top five percent or bottom five percent of your life. But the one, the one that I didn't realize was because I stepped away from the company for a little bit and then I came back and I was honest with everybody of why I left for a few weeks and what I was going through, and I think that helped me more, just talking about it and being honest about it, than anything I physically did or anything I worked on. And what was crazy was the amount of people within the company that that reached out and to for them to hear that from me. Uh, how important that was. Um, because everyone struggles.
Speaker 1:I mean everyone does.
Speaker 2:I just don't think it's something that people talk about. I went away on a trip by myself again about three months ago because I was just. I was back there where I was like kind of stuck again and so it was time for me to reset. So I reset a lot.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's just like the universe is designed for us to get stuck and for us to unstuck, because I can picture you here you are, you build all this great stuff and then you lose your wife. Covid is like this you know, extraordinary wild thing nobody ever anticipated. But like we beat ourselves up right, you're like well, I've, I thought that's what I was supposed to do, is work hard, and I've, I've been so successful over here and now it's cost me this. And like you want to redo or twist or like it's, it's this crazy. Like trying to figure it all out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think for me, the toughest thing is and I still can't, and I literally work on this every day I can't let things go and so where, if I think I failed as a dad or I failed as a husband, um it it's. It's not about okay the next day and okay that's in the past. Let's correct it. Like I want to go back and fix everything and so I can't let stuff go and it's hard for me to forgive and so I get stuck in this cycle of stuff that's really bothering me or I'm beating myself up about. It's a circle, like I keep doing it. I keep doing it. I actually have a presentation tomorrow with EO, a controversial organization, on that topic, because I can't let go and forgive.
Speaker 1:So you hold a grudge.
Speaker 2:Oh, yeah, yeah, I do.
Speaker 1:But see, the fact that you can acknowledge it is huge, because I feel, like a lot of people I know that are big grudge holders, like they can't even really acknowledge it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think a lot of times it's because they don't give the other person the satisfaction, or the situation the satisfaction, of admitting it's bothering them. Now I hold a grudge like I, yeah, I, I wish I, I wish I could let stuff go well, you know the poison, the.
Speaker 1:The quote about the poison right, it's like drinking poison and expecting the other person to die oh yeah because but it, but it's, but it's so true Cause I that I that's what I've always.
Speaker 1:I don't know how I. I kind of do know how I don't hold a grudge. I've seen some you know pretty gnarly things in terms of people who know how to hold grudges and um, what it does, and so I've just been that way. But I do believe in that. Yeah, thoroughly like that it. You hold those things inside and it manifests.
Speaker 2:I think I think the way I do it's even worse because, like you wouldn't, a lot of people would never think that something still bothers me, or I think back ten years, or, but it's all internal like it's not external. For me it's like I don't show it, yeah, but man, yeah, I can't let stuff go.
Speaker 1:Do you go to therapy regularly?
Speaker 2:No, so that's the other one that I probably should uh do. Um, you know, even like my divorce, like I we never went to therapy, like, uh, I think we went two or three times when all that happened. Um, but no, there's. There's a lot of shit that I need to work on. That would probably be really good for me, but it's also. I just haven't found the right person that I can talk to.
Speaker 1:It really is. I think that's the I was lucky to find. I have a woman that I go to. I love her and I think she probably thinks I'm batshit crazy. Sometimes I'm like do you think I'm this? What do you think about this? And she's probably thinking like no one tries to self-diagnose the way that you do, but it's like, even if you don't have like and you don't have to go every week and we've gone months and months without, but it's nice to just have this person that has your history and like can just give you.
Speaker 1:She's given me so many tools yeah, like weird tools that I can think of mentally that I use to this day. You know it's so. It's just so helpful, but it is hard. It's like dating, yeah.
Speaker 2:I mean, it's not that I haven't tried or I haven't met with people, or I haven't tried different things, just nothing stuck for me yet. Yeah no-transcript anymore and it allows you to see kind of a bigger picture, but it got me to a point where I just didn't care, like I didn't care about anything and and so that's when I got to. My really dark spot was, uh, was after all that and I talked to Dave about it, yeah, but yeah, so that one wasn't for me.
Speaker 1:How many, how many did you do?
Speaker 2:I did the five sessions so the like it was five weeks in a row, uh, they're like one hour sessions, all controlled and um, and that experience doing it is amazing. It's especially after the first one, because then you kind of realize your journey and how you can kind of control it and if you do see like a dark spot, you kind of go to it instead of away from it. But yeah, it spiraled me.
Speaker 1:Interesting.
Speaker 2:But I still recommend it. I mean, I think it was a good experience.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So what's the future for Pins Like what are you seeing? What's the like? What's your? Do you see yourself still doing that in five years? Like what's the plan?
Speaker 2:The way that we're set up with Rise is, you know, we bring things to market, scale them, show profitability, and then we let them go. Pins was ago, pims was getting to that, that stage where, and you know, earlier this year we went through a sale process. We started it last year and um, and so you know other business owners will say, you know, going going through a sale process or anything like that, it's, it's draining. I didn't realize how, how draining it was, not just for me but for my, my team as well, to go through that. And then you go through it and you know the number's not where you want it, or the multiple's not there, or your same store sales are down.
Speaker 2:And then again you feel like you were solving to this thing and it was all in the plan, and then it didn't happen. And so you know we pulled it and we said we're not going to do this right now, and so again, it's one of those things where it's like, did I just fail at something, you know. And so again, it's one of those things where it's like, did I just fail at something? And so I concentrate on that, I concentrate on not getting that done this year and I don't concentrate on. We opened three new locations in the last four months and we did an amazing job and the team did a great job on that. I just can't focus on the good, I just can't.
Speaker 1:Do you think it's because of how you grew up?
Speaker 2:Yeah, without question. Again, I've always wanted more, I've always.
Speaker 1:I've just, it's just the way I've always been and but yeah, I mean at some point it's like one's enough enough well, I was just gonna ask you, like, have you ever, have you ever like sat with yourself in these moments of solitude to say, like what is enough for me? Like, as you're mapping out the year and this is a question I'm asking myself, so it's like what is enough?
Speaker 2:I would say it, as every day goes by, um it, it gets less and less, because it's, uh, at some point, just the, the, the peace and the just not the total grind. All the time, it just it wears on you. And so, yeah, there was always a number in my head and there's, there's always a number in my head, like for the business we develop, because it's part of the plan, but I don't know if that number is so important anymore as it is. You know the, you know the team that got us there, rewarding them and them getting something out of it and and being able to move on to what's next.
Speaker 1:Uh, so, how do you talk to yourself inside, are you? Are you pretty hard on yourself, like like, are you real critical?
Speaker 2:of yourself.
Speaker 1:Yeah, again, I focus on what's wrong right, but like so, have you ever tried? Like, have you ever shifted that dialogue and tried it?
Speaker 2:I've I've tried so many things do?
Speaker 1:you didn't realize you're in a therapy session, did you know the fuck? Guess what? I'm really cheap by the hour. Um, I'm a bargain basement therapist, but it's called street therapy.
Speaker 2:But I'm telling you what troy nice, nice I'll turn this ship right around, yeah no, no, I've tried tons of different techniques. I've tried a lot of different things. I think I mean, yeah, just nothing is stuck. I'm also impatient, though.
Speaker 1:Well, you know what I also think? I think that at least what I see, especially for you know successful males, and not just males. But I think everyone's looking for like this big thing and I'm not saying that like ketamine doesn't work or I have no experience with these those things to say yes or no. I sometimes just think it's the tiny hinge that can swing the door like the big door, and I think, like a smart guy like you that would say, okay, you know, it's just like building any kind of muscle. It's like, well, how do I talk to myself? That might sound silly, but like just shifting, kind of like, instead of like constantly, like fuck why, it's like damn, I did that, or that's pretty fucking cool. Or like trying to like just little shifts in the way you're.
Speaker 2:I think deep down it it's, it's not important to me. So, like I try to do that, like I'll try to. This year, for example, if I look back, like what we've accomplished this year, um, that a lot of great things. I mean, you know, business wise, you know, but I'll, I'll and I'll, I'll try to build myself up and be like you know, celebrate the wins, you know. Uh, you look back and I can write on a list everything that we've accomplished. But those five things over on the other side that we didn't or didn't go right, they just always take precedent. For me, like they're. To me they're more important. I, I, I do just, it's just the way I'm wired and I guess that's why I'm just so fucked up and I'm an angry person.
Speaker 1:Hey, back to you being an asshole Way to swing that back around Troy.
Speaker 2:No, it's because you know. So my friends that know me, like you, put me in any situation and I'm fine and I can be personable, but I generally don't like people personable and but I generally don't like people, uh, and so I would much rather be by myself or with a small group, or then then, like, I don't like going to events and I don't like that type of stuff.
Speaker 1:so I can feel that, yeah, so what made you say yes to this?
Speaker 2:I followed the show. Uh, that I I'll always, I'm always up for a conversation, and uh, you just, you always seem positive and happy, and so I just wanted to come in here and piss you off and make you angry, or something. I think you're, I think you're great. No, and I again I've. I've purposely, this last year and a half, continue to put myself in situations that I normally wouldn't do. Cause it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it'd be easy for me to just say, no, I'm not going to do it yeah and you know, I canceled once because my eye, literally I broke a blood vessel in my eye. It was solid, red and you know, and we rescheduled and I was like god damn it. Now I gotta build myself up to do this again. So, uh, no, so I I even though it's not something I would normally do or like to do I realized that when I make myself do it afterwards, it it makes, it gives me a different perspective.
Speaker 1:Well, I hope it hasn't been that painful for you.
Speaker 2:No, it's not.
Speaker 1:So what would you say to people who do say that those things about you, or do you just not even care?
Speaker 2:You know. So I, I, I care, care. I think there was a time when I really didn't, and I think it's more. I think I care more now because there was times when, yeah, I was an asshole or I didn't approach things the right way, or you know, and I still don't Like I have no filter, like my ex-wife or anybody who's ever dated me will say my delivery is awful. But I also, I care more than most people do For me.
Speaker 2:It's, it's more like I yeah if, if people feel that way about me, fine, I'm fine with that. You have every right to. But get to know me as I've evolved as a person. You know and and frankly I think I owe it to them more than anything. Um the, and yeah, it's, it's. It's easy to to blame everything on, like the owner of the company or this or that, but you know, I'd say 75% of I probably earned. I mean to be completely fucking honest, like it just is what it is.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, but you, you're, you're self-reflective, you know, and I think too, people can like take a snapshot in time of someone and then call them something. And, like you said, I've evolved a lot since the asshole days. I'm still an asshole, but maybe I have a three on a scale of you know, I just know, I am now one just listen, I'm all about accountability.
Speaker 1:I love it. Well, I've really enjoyed this. I mean I, I give I give you a good solid 10 out of 10. Anything else you want to spit out, make sure you get out before we close the door.
Speaker 2:No, I can't believe you got me to talk about the bogey though. Really so I opened with that I know Again, I get a lot of questions about that right now. I know Again, I get a lot of questions about that right now.
Speaker 1:So maybe putting it out there, though, is like OK, that would be such a great like how to improve the atmosphere there, like that's an incredible opportunity for whatever these four quadrants, shawnee Hills, dublin, whoever Like let's all just figure out a way to play in the sandbox and get this incredible thing happening. I think it's so neat I mean again I who do I need to call?
Speaker 2:yeah, that's the first thing everyone says and everyone's like well, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do that, and so that's the one thing, and I think this is, like also the important thing that's allowed me to evolve and kind of work on myself is I I surround myself with really good people, like my team and and what they do and how they've allowed me to kind of step away and concentrate on what I'm really good at, like I love to develop, I love to create, I love what's new and I get so excited about that.
Speaker 2:I've realized over the years that my CFO feels the same way about money, and and so there's like, because I'm really good at you know these three things. Uh, there's other people that are the things that I'm not good at they're just so passionate about and they geek out at and I think, the more that I pull myself out of it or I step away. Um, that's why we've been able to grow the way we have and take on things. I have a really, really good team around us.
Speaker 1:That's awesome. Well, I really appreciate you coming and not canceling on me again, and I really appreciate you bringing gifts. Where is that gift? We should open it while I'm on here.
Speaker 2:But yeah, so it's a lot of our swag and one of my new favorite shirts.
Speaker 1:That's our Austin location generous that's a new knit cap.
Speaker 2:I didn't realize we had those until we put in the bag. Yeah, okay.
Speaker 1:I love that, love the color.
Speaker 2:I'll be keeping that you know that that's my one menu favorites, so that's from our Austin location love it. It's a big one, though I love it.
Speaker 1:Well, lucky good thing I'm a big woman.
Speaker 2:Not big that way.
Speaker 1:Good thing I'm a big woman.
Speaker 2:So you gotta, oh, there you go. So this was a.
Speaker 1:Is this a buckle? I mean, you are really outdoing yourself here, are you kidding me? Oh my god, how cool is that.
Speaker 2:So that was kind of a joke. That's so great I was like, I'm going to get these made and I've never worn one yet.
Speaker 1:But oh my gosh, I love You're really raising the bar here.
Speaker 2:And then I will say this is cool, that one got worn on. I think the I'll be wearing that the Tonight Show or something by someone, and then, yeah, we have the most comfortable sweatshirts. I love it. Look at that well, thank you, troy see if I would have canceled again, you would have got twice as much damn you couldn't cancel on me again and you know, once you say yes to me, though, I just keep following you like literally.
Speaker 1:And you know, once you say yes to me, though I just keep following you Like literally. I'll just keep following you, All right. Thank you so much.
Speaker 2:Troy, you're welcome this has been a pleasure.
Speaker 1:And if you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, spotify, apple or wherever you get your podcasts. And until next time, go to pins and keep moving baby.
