The Keri Croft Show
The Keri Croft Show
Ask Amy x The Keri Croft Show: Stop Obsessing Over Followers—Start Building Revenue
Everyone’s out here glued to their follower count like it’s the stock market. But let me hit you with some truth: likes don’t pay the bills. Revenue does.
In this Ask Amy x The Keri Croft Show mashup, Amy Nelson and I go all in on the difference between chasing vanity metrics and actually building a business that works. We dig into:
✨ The wild ROI of email marketing (and why it’s still the most underrated tool in the game)
✨ How effort—not excuses—is the edge you’ve been missing
✨ Why growth mindset beats “safe and stuck” every single time
✨ What it really looks like to start over, pivot, and create something better
And in case you missed it—Amy drops something big in this episode: she’s officially working with The B Lab. Why? Because even after building The Riveter and leading massive teams, she knows it’s never too late to shift gears, find clarity, and build something new that actually fires you up.
This one’s for anyone who’s tired of feeling stuck on the content hamster wheel and ready to put their energy into what actually moves the needle.
So quit obsessing over followers. Start building revenue. Let’s go. ⚡️
Hey there you beautiful badass. Welcome to the Keri Croft Show. I'm your host, keri Croft, delivering you stories that get you pumped up and feeling like the unstoppable savage that you are. So grab your coffee, put on your game face and let's do this thing, baby face and let's do this thing, baby.
Speaker 1:Avena Women's Care is a collective of 40 plus providers that have been serving central Ohio communities with comprehensive women's health care for decades. They meet women where they are, in every phase of life. From fertility services to menopause care, annual checkups to 3D mammography. Avena provides robust services for all. So for the highest level of individualized women's health care, there's one name to remember Avena Women's Care. Go to wwwavenawomenscarecom to request an appointment. Be sure to tell them Carrie sent you Ready to elevate your self-care game.
Speaker 1:Bosco Beauty Bar is a modern med spa offering everything from cosmetic injectables, lasers and microneedling to medical-grade facials and skincare, conveniently located in Clintonville, grandview, powell and Easton. Making self-care a priority has never been easier. Use code KROFT for $25 off your first visit. Hey, ohio, thinking about smoother, brighter skin. Well, fall is the perfect time for laser treatments. With less sun and cooler weather, your skin heals beautifully and you'll be glowing just in time for the holidays. Honey. And here's the best part If you're a first-time client, mention the Keri Croft Show for $100 off your first purchase. Call today and book your fall laser treatment with the experts at Donaldson Amy Nelson. Hey, keri, welcome back to the Keri Croft Show. Ask Amy edition so happy to be here. I mean my cup runneth over, so wait, where were you? You just got back from something very cool.
Speaker 2:I did a wild work week with three work trips. But the thing that I did for myself is that I went to a weekend in Asheville, north Carolina, with a group of 40 newsletter creators to learn newsletter skills. Okay, I mean, I left my four kids for a weekend, which I never I don't think I've ever willingly done that. But I wanted to learn.
Speaker 1:But I wanted to learn, so bubble it up. So for the person at home that's like ooh interesting. I didn't get to go, but like what would be the main takeaways that you walked away with that you wouldn't have had if you didn't?
Speaker 2:go. I think the main takeaways are probably what I would say about so many things. So the main takeaways for me I have a newsletter with 60,000 subscribers that I don't really monetize and it has always seemed like this very big, complicated thing to me. I'm not a newsletter creator, I can't do this. But eventually I got fed up with myself and I was like, well, fucking, figure it out, amy. Like this isn't rocket science.
Speaker 2:So I found a great teacher and I wanted to be around other people because you learn from other people doing it. And I went out there and it was a bunch of skills sessions around how to grow your audience, how to sell things to your audience in a way that's not like I'm a snake oil salesman, but the things are good at your services how to work with collaborators, you know, and it's kind of like it's there's a rhythm to it, there are skills like have this sequence, you know, pitch this way. It's not that complicated. And my mind was blown by the fact I was sitting there and I was like literally everybody could build an email list and make some money doing it Everyone, yeah.
Speaker 1:And they talk about the ROI on an email list. They give you the those the data.
Speaker 2:I mean I, you know I. There was one guy. He had an email list of, you know, 5,000 people and he was monetizing it to thousands of dollars every month.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I believe it's like for every dollar you make, back 37.
Speaker 1:It's different depending on how people spend, but I think there's like an industry average that it's either 37 or $47. Let's see what chat says. Let's just fuck with chat. What does chat say? Can you please give us an idea of the roi on an email list? Like for every dollar I spend, what do I get in returns? Please be as detailed as possible because I'd really love to learn as much as I can here. You know you're not supposed to say please to chat. I know, and I didn't say thank you, you don't need to. I know you're not supposed to because they spend more money. That's right. It takes our energy, it takes our water carry. I say hey, motherfucker, hey, you asshole. Oh, he's thinking longer for a better answer. I hope he doesn't, because people, people think oh, email, is you know so this or so, that it's just not sexy and glamorous and it's not it's the future, but it's like do we really need sexy and?
Speaker 2:glamorous or do we want revenue you want revenue. You're building a business, especially when your head's on the pillow.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like it's building a business. Oh, this you know, chet. Really we have a good relationship. He is really going above and beyond here. Does your chat have a name?
Speaker 2:Chet Chet, that's good. What's yours? Carl's is named Luke, I don't know why. What's yours? I don't have a name. I use of deep research. I use AI for deep research. So, yes, and I think Perplexity and Claude are better than ChatGPT for deep research.
Speaker 1:I want to do deep research.
Speaker 2:This is like an expert opinion over here. You guys, I'm not like you need to go use this, but I love it. But there are people that are making seven figures off of newsletters.
Speaker 1:And so you hear those statistics and this is like true for anything. You hear whether it's a course, an email list, and I'm making X amount of dollars a month and we get so seduced by that. But it is true for the minority. It's not going to be everyone making that, but those people who are doing that, they are definitely putting time, effort and energy and focus into it. They're not just checking a box and one of the things.
Speaker 2:I will say that one of my biggest takeaways from this audience camp it's called the audience camp by Matt McGarry. He was a great newsletter agency and one of my biggest takeaways was that everybody who was succeeding at building their newsletter, driving revenue from the newsletter, was keeping a tight look at their data and experimenting. And it goes back to what we've always talked about with the business things. When all the different pieces work, like the data matters Look at what's working, look at what's not working. You should know if every dollar you're spending in your business is makes sense or if it doesn't. Right 99 people aren't doing that.
Speaker 1:I know okay, so chet got back with me. Yeah, industry benchmarks, direct marketing association. For years dma has reported that email marketing delivers an average roi of 36 to 42 dollars for every dollar spent. That's wild, wild, that is wild. So retail commerce is like 45 to one, professional services 42 to one, media publishing 40 to one. So what goes into the ROI, list quality, cost factors, revenue levers. And then here's an example scenario If you invest a thousand dollars in list growth and email software this quarter, you add 500 new subscribers at $2 each and like, for example, they're paying attention to the data.
Speaker 1:If their engagement is 25% open, that's 125 readers. Click through 5%, 25 visitors. Conversion, 4%, one sale. If your product is $1,000, you've broken even on just one purchase. But when you go down into the granular level, like that, you're like wait, that makes sense, right, Right. But so when you? But when you go down into the granular level, like that, you're like wait, that makes sense, Right. But then when you're so busy and you're at the high level and you don't have the foundation or the data, you don't understand, you don't know what you don't know. So it really is. It's actually just knowledge is power. It feels good to like take it down to like seriously. That was fifth grade math we did it really was, I think, the other.
Speaker 2:The other thing, like the other big takeaway I had, was it is so important to put yourself in places, around people who are doing interesting things that you're interested in. Like, I did not get on my laptop the entire weekend, I just sat with these people and I learned it was interesting. They all have growth mindsets like these are my, and it's awesome and inspiring to be around that.
Speaker 1:Well, I also think too. There's, I think, a fixed mindset and a growth mindset, yes, and I believe that, like a lot of people, especially when you get to be a certain age, there is a shield or a wrapper that you put around your life experience because, hey, it's me and I have to be worth something, and I want to be smart and I want to be somebody, and there's a lot of psychological layers to that.
Speaker 1:But I will die in a growth mindset. I will never, ever let myself be cemented or calcified into a mindset with which I can't learn from another human being. Now, if I'm sitting across from an absolute, like you know, someone who is a complete whatever, I can still listen and still go back and forth and understand. Like, okay, this person is clearly in my mind, not even in the realm, but I'm not going to attack that person. I'm going to live my life and move on and continue to try to be around people who improve the atmosphere.
Speaker 2:But that is like there's two things to that right, like A, what I figured out and I 100% agree with you. But what I figured out is it's a lot easier to have a fixed mindset. You can justify anything you don't try in the world. Oh, I can't do that, you know? Yes, you can, you can quite literally do anything, you just have to decide to. And it is so important to have a growth mindset as you age because it will make you live longer, it will literally add years to your life.
Speaker 2:And the other thing, because it's like, oh, there are 80 year olds that climb Mount Everest and it's. They're not, like you know, superheroes, they're just people that decided that they were going to keep going and keep trying new things. Like women who started lifting weights in their 70s and entered bodybuilding competitions. Like why the fuck not? Right, like, why not? But it's a lot easier to say to myself I can't start a company, I can't raise venture capital, I can't run a marathon yes, you can, yeah, and you can also guess what try and fail and then try again, yeah. But I mean, I just think it's so important. But the other thing I will say about seeking out people with a growth mindset. That is one of the most challenging things I have in my life, because I don't really want to hang out with people that don't have a growth mindset. It's just not that interesting, Like and I and I don't. It's it's, but it's hard to constantly seek out people who have a growth mindset, like it is a challenge to keep going yeah.
Speaker 1:I think my experience in that is that you don't try that, you it. They come to you. That's I mean you build your life and then, they and I look at this, I mean so and and when you say don't try, I mean you said what. You started the show and you've been trying. You've been doing a lot of things. Yes, you set yourself up, but I think the way you live your life and when you're putting those vibes out, you absolutely those people will be drawn to you. It's like magnets.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the counter to that is that people with a fixed mindset will not want to hang out with you. No, because it's. It's. It's disappointing if you're, if you're not, someone who's willing to take the risks and get in the arena. It's hard to hang out with people who are, because you see, it.
Speaker 1:You know you could too, and you're choosing not to Well it just reinforces, it makes you feel, it reinforces those negative feelings you have of yourself. Yeah, and, like you know, I would love to help pull as many people as I could onto the growth side. Yeah, but I think what it all boils down to, well, there's two things, there's two major components to that that that stop people. Number one is the belief in yourself, which is everything, but then two is effort.
Speaker 1:People do not want to put effort and let's just, let's just boil it down, call it what it is. So if you're sitting at home and you're you're motherfucking us right now cause you're mad at this conversation, let's look, check it out. Look at your stats, like, what is it you're trying to accomplish? What have you not accomplished? And then what are the reasons why? And I promise you effort there's a neon flashing Cause. Guess what it's hard, guess what it's not fun, guess what? I'd rather stay home and watch days of our lives and eat bonbons every day. That shit's easy. Yeah, I don't want to get up at 4 30 in the morning. I don't want to eat the protein shake. I don't want to, like, have a walk because I know it's going to be good for my mental health. Like, of course, I do want to do those things but, it's E it's effort.
Speaker 2:E.
Speaker 1:F F O R T effort.
Speaker 2:I completely agree with you. And this, like I think I realized this about the world when I was 36, because I had this epiphany I had gotten an in-house job as an attorney at a cell phone company. Oh my God. So I'm in this office park outside of Seattle Washington. I'd been at law firms before that. I'm in this office park. It's very hard to get an in-house job as a litigation attorney, which is what I was. They're very rare. The job was incredibly boring to me and it was also quite easy and I made six figures and I would keep getting a raise and I would keep getting stock if I stayed.
Speaker 2:And when I quit after 11 months because I thought I was going to die when I was quitting and I decided I would start my own company, someone at the company was like why would you ever leave this job? It's so easy. And I said it would kill me to sit here and waste my life being bored. I would rather go do very hard things and maybe fail than sit here. Oh yeah, but I realized then, because it just hadn't occurred to me, that anybody would make the choice to sit at the safe job and be bored. But that is most people and I always. You know, I was like Hunter S Thompson has this quote buy the ticket, take the ride. I would choose that every day, all day, and it has ended in fucking disaster for me multiple times. Right, like I am the queen of annihilation. My life has been blown up multiple times, but it's never boring.
Speaker 1:And you can always begin again.
Speaker 2:Yeah Right, it's like you've never gone and sat in a movie and watch someone be bored for an hour and a half. You watch heroes, you watch villains, you watch people do wild, outrageous things, and those are the stories we all deserve.
Speaker 1:Stress and inflammation take a toll on your body and your wellness. Relax, restore and rejuvenate at Panacea Luxury Spa Boutique. Book any service of $100 or more and enjoy two hours in our luxury amenities. Unwind in our Himalayan salt saunas, recharge in our wet retreat space with a eucalyptus steam room, hot hydrotherapy pool and cold plunge, then drift into deep relaxation with our hanging loungers. What's your panacea? We'll help you find it.
Speaker 1:Who says you need a special occasion to feel like a celeb? I mean, stress is real, life is busy and your scalp, yeah, it deserves some love too. That's where Headspace by Mia Santiago comes in. Treat yourself or someone who deserves it to a luxurious scalp treatment and a killer blowout or cut, because nothing says main character, energy honey like a fresh style from celebrity stylist Mia and her team. And because we love a good deal. Mention the Keri Croft show and get 20% off your service or any gift card for somebody in your life that you love. Headspace by Mia Santiago because great hair days shouldn't be rare.
Speaker 1:It's funny that you say that. Um, and you're right. It's the path less traveled for all all kinds of reasons that we could could be 10 podcasts, but there was this quote yesterday. I'm reading this audio or listening to this audio book, and I think it was from napoleon hill, and it says something like put your focus on us, on a definite goal, and watch how the world all steps aside unless you walk through. Yeah, and I, I literally I hit the button like six times because I wanted to.
Speaker 1:And it's so because I had just come off that conversation with cory gregory at muscle island and it was kind of the same sentiment around this big thing he the undertaking mentally and not knowing what the hell he was doing, but doing it anyway. And how is this island sitting here for a hundred years? Because everyone else, because 98% of people, saw a road block or an obstacle. And if they did take a step forward to get it, they realize, oh wait, there's no utilities here or there's no seawalls here.
Speaker 1:And so that idea of put your mind on a specific goal and watch the rest of the world step aside so you can walk through, I mean it's beautiful, it's so true, it's beautiful. And so when you have that something in there bubbling up or you have that little voice, it feels like it's so far down in your gut that you can barely hear it. But there's something there that's causing a little bit of discontentment. It's causing a little bit of you questioning. You hear it, but there's something there that's causing a little bit of discontentment. It's causing a little bit of you questioning you hear it.
Speaker 1:That's how it starts and then you mine for it. And it doesn't happen overnight. It doesn't go from this little whisper deep down in the valleys of your intuition to all of a sudden being this thing that comes out. All of a sudden being this thing that comes out but that, instead of being afraid of that, have FOMO, that you're never going to take that ride and get it out into the world.
Speaker 2:Have FOMO. I mean, I love this and I wish I'd met you when I was 25 because, you know, when I graduated law school, there was always a voice in me you are not built to sit in an office. There is something different out there for you. You can impact people. You are not built to sit in an office. There is something different out there for you. You can impact people. You can do something. Go do it. And I was so afraid to do it, you know, and it was really like meeting my husband, who was my partner in life and courage.
Speaker 2:It was like take a swing kid yeah, and I knew he had my back. Yeah, and that was a big part of it.
Speaker 1:But, like God, listen to the voice. Life is short. You get one ride Right and I think even let's take it a step further because you and I, as we, have continued this sort of journey together friendship, but then also challenging one another and it's been such a great thing. Clearly our business kind of minds are like okay, what can we do together?
Speaker 1:here, and like we're in the middle of all that, and so the B lab has been part of this conversation here and like we're, we're in the middle of all that, and so the B lab has been part of this conversation, and so we're not just sitting here in your ear going, hey, we're going to be great cheerleaders and you can do it. Kid, we actually are building and you have the riveter and you're doing other things too. We are walking the walk and building a business and an infrastructure that can help you figure out how to go from that thing being buried into your intuition yeah, into a starting line of a potential, like a little incubator of an idea.
Speaker 2:Yeah, into a micro little business, right into a freaking solid business and off and running, like that's what the b lab is and that is, and like that's the thing about the b lab that's so amazing is this is how you change your life, one step at a time, but you have to dive in and take the effort to do it, but there are people there to help. There are people who will guide you. It's like every woman I know who has built something is willing to turn behind them and say can I show you how to do this? Because it does not have to be the way it is for you right now. Right, it's like you know people will say well, I don't have your social media following. Guess what?
Speaker 2:I didn't have my social media following when I started the Riveter, I had like 3000 followers on Instagram and it was pictures of my kids yeah, and not good pictures.
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:You know. So it's like like you build the why I am obsessed what you do with the B Lab, because people need guidance and collaboration and friendship and all of that to go past I'm just excited for you.
Speaker 1:I'm excited to sort of like guide you through yeah, I am too Some of the brave shift stuff that's happening. It's been like a lot of things twirling on my mind in terms of your experience.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:So you can actually you know experience what we're building in that way. But speaking of social media presence, that's another tie back to the B-Lab, because I believe that we are way too focused on vanity metrics. I feel like everyone's staring at this one front door which is Instagram or TikTok, and listen, it's a part, it's an inevitable part of the strategy. It's another way to get your message out into the world. I'm not saying I'm not discounting that, but so many people who have their face like picture your face right now in front of like a window, like with glass, like this, with your nose. Okay, this is what everyone's doing on social how many likes, how many shares, how many fucking many fucking followers. Right, this is where you are and everything going on behind you the ecosystem, infrastructure, experience, community um email, by the way oh yeah all, all, this entire system is passing you right by.
Speaker 1:Yeah, and guess what's tied to that system?
Speaker 2:Revenue.
Speaker 1:Bitches, I know I'm running out of money, so while you're window, shopping for your ego and the vanity metrics, instead of stepping back and saying, okay, here's a whole list of things or here's all these little boxes in a line and social media is one of those. So yeah, we care for it, we prune, we water. We do the things, but now I'm over here and here and here and here on the entire assembly line and ecosystem. That guess what drives revenue. Yeah.
Speaker 2:So come on. Most people do not need any social media presence.
Speaker 1:Most businesses do not need any social media presence.
Speaker 2:That is the truth of it, and it's like, yes, I am on TikTok and Instagram a lot, but guess what, I don't really make any money from it. That's not even your purpose, that's not your purpose? No, it's not my purpose.
Speaker 2:I'm on there doing activism right, I mean, you got shit going on but I'll tell you this like LinkedIn, where which is a professional platform where I have the least amount of followers, that's where I find the most exciting business opportunities and do drive revenue, yeah, for the riveter, yep, right, and that's you know. And nobody ever talks like, oh, I want to grow my LinkedIn following, but that, like you, go to the places where the people you can help are who need the services you sell, like who have the same problems you do. That you're trying to fix. Yeah, and a lot of times that's in real life too oh right, like right it's not on the Internet anywhere.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So if you, if you're, if you've started something and you kind of feel like you're like Bobby, a rudderless ship in the ocean, if you will, as my dad used to call me in college If you're feeling like that, you should step back. Whether it's the B lab, whether it's a coach somewhere, you really should take a minute, come, swim back to the bay and look at wait, what exactly am I trying to accomplish? Who am I serving Right? What platforms and infrastructures will tee me up to not only reach those customers in a genuine way, but will also align me with?
Speaker 2:revenue? Yeah, because without revenue, what the fuck are you doing? No, right, I know it's like you have to like we're building businesses, it's just yeah it's all of it that needs to be.
Speaker 1:It's. It's like a sheet of music. Yeah, truly it is, and that's how I. That's how I know that sounds weird, but that's how. When I'm in these engagements and the way that I feel about business, yeah, is that it can be a very harmonious thing when you see sort of like, you see the brand clarity and you see someone who isn't afraid to price themselves from a value perspective and you see culture and a leadership team that's aligned. And then you see a financial P&L that feels like you're throwing out some cash at the end of it. And then all this kind of goes, you're feeling, and then you see the opposite at the end of it. And then all this kind of goes, you're feeling, and then you see the opposite and you're like no wonder people can't sleep at night and their mental health and their hair's falling out and shit, but then they're not helping themselves. Step back, get somebody that can put a lens on the shit and help you reorganize the pieces of the puzzle and get it flowing.
Speaker 2:And it's never too late to do that.
Speaker 1:No, and get it flowing. And it's never too late to do that. No, it's never. And it's also never too late to say you know.
Speaker 2:I left lawyering because I didn't love it and I'll say this publicly. Right, like I, the Riveter, I set out to build coworking and event spaces and I built a team of 150, which I did not love at all. And today, you know, I'm eight years into this and I am not super inspired by what it is today and it's like this is my fucking company right.
Speaker 2:Like I. You know it's like and I'm not inspired by it. So what do I do now? Cause I have to do something, and that's why you know I'm working with the B lab. Because I have to do something, because I deserve better. The people I serve, you know, deserve better. It's never too late to change. Even if you've built your own company, it's never too late to change it again.
Speaker 1:No, and it's so funny how I could not be doing anything else that I. That would give me more satisfaction.
Speaker 1:The like I already see yeah, I already see you, I already see it, like it's been obvious to me since probably three months ago where I was like wait, something just really clicked with me on exactly, and then you're like, yeah, well, I'm thinking about doing it all, just kind of, yeah, trust the vision, trust the intuition, like you are literally framing something up that's going to exist.
Speaker 1:This is another thing about people who don't have vision versus people who do yeah, if you have a vision and you can see out into the distance, well, first of all, how are you going to create something if you don't have the vision? Right, but understand that when you are a visionary, people will think you're delusional, they will think you're crazy. So, like kind of temper, how many people you talk to because they're going to kill your joy? Talk to because they're going to kill your joy? But that's the first part of it. And being able to have that gift of, or skill set to look and be astute enough and care enough about another human being to look at their vision and say I see this for you, even maybe some things before you even see it.
Speaker 2:Yeah, right, you're afraid of seeing Right.
Speaker 1:Find yourself someone like that, yes, who can do that for you and set your trajectory in a completely different path. Stop doing shit you're miserable doing because you don't know how to get out of it. You're stronger than you know. You're smarter, you're more resourceful, more capable than you know. Step back and figure it out. Tiktok, motherfucker, like seriously.
Speaker 2:TikTok, yeah, yes, every day that passes is a day.
Speaker 1:You should be doing the thing I'm excited to go to Washington DC with you.
Speaker 2:I'm excited for you to come to Washington DC.
Speaker 1:And Nettie's going to come. It's going to be amazing. You're going to love Nettie.
Speaker 2:You're going to love it and everyone will love you. It's going to be amazing. Can't wait.
Speaker 1:Yeah, Thank you Amy. Oh, my gosh Apple or wherever you get your podcasts, and until next time, keep moving baby.
