What Happens When Life Doesn’t Go According to Plan with Jessica Stanley

Jessica didn’t set out to build a nonprofit.

She was living her life. Raising kids, building her career, doing all the normal things and then everything shifted. A diagnosis. A timeline no one was ready for. And a version of life she never planned to navigate.

And somewhere in that, she built something.

Brave Men started because of her husband, Demetrius, but what it’s become is bigger than that. It’s pushing men to pay attention to their health, get tested, and have conversations most of them avoid. The kind that could change everything if they had them sooner.

This conversation goes a lot of places, grief, responsibility, family, health, but underneath all of it is a real look at what it means to keep going when your life takes a turn you didn’t choose.

And what you decide to build from there.

Transcript

Sponsor: Avena Women’s Care

SPEAKER_03 0:00

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SPEAKER_01 1:38

And everything works out the way it's supposed to. Well, it's nice to be connected and lock eyes with you. Same. Thank you, Tony. Happy to be here. Thank you, Tony. For connecting us. Yes. Yeah. I think she saw you at advertise on your stories, you know, about like Okay.

Grief Three Years Later

SPEAKER_03 1:54

That makes sense. She wrote me through Instagram. Instagram. Okay. Now we're with it. Now we are we are on a wavelength. So now all I'm going to be obsessed about is this conversation with you and figuring out what famous person you look like. Yes. Or who had a baby, like what famous people had a baby to form this gorgeousness that you're approaching me with here today. I will figure it out before the end of this conversation. I'm curious. So how are you today in 2026? How are you dealing? Um, I think we just open up with like the grief process, right? I mean, yeah.

SPEAKER_01 2:28

I mean, it is something. It honestly, I have always been kind of an empath. And whenever I've come across people who have lost someone, I've always felt it so deeply for them. Um, but there is nothing in the world that can prepare you for what the actual grief experience is like. Um, it's paralyzing. I actually, and with Demetrius being so out in the community and so well known, um, I couldn't leave my house for two weeks. I didn't want to face anybody. I just couldn't bring myself to talk about it and be confronted with it. Um and a lot of it too was that his passing wasn't exactly peaceful. So I was dealing with all of this trauma from what I had witnessed and what I had lived with him that last month. And um, you know, everyone else was remembering him for all the good things, which is awesome. That's what you want. But I just had to find a way to rest my thoughts and be able to communicate with people and let them know um kind of what we'd been through and share my story. So yeah, I'm doing well. I really am. Um I think Braveman helps me. It gives me a purpose, and I know I'm helping people, so um, you know, that always helps. But we're coming up on the ninth on Monday. That's his three-year anniversary of death.

SPEAKER_03 4:12

So that's what I was thinking because I was thinking about, you know, three years probably seems like a lifetime and then no time at all. Exactly.

SPEAKER_01 4:21

Without him. Mm-hmm. It's exactly what it feels like. You know how the time of year can sometimes be nostalgic in a good way or a bad way. So this time of year for me, it just stirs up kind of what we were doing at that time. Um, so you know, a little anxious this time of year. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 4:40

And I think, you know, there are multiple, I think, spokes around why it's important to talk about brave men. But let's talk just for the people at home that might be like, eh, you know what, colonoscopy, I'm gonna wait. I'm gonna wait another year. I don't need to do that. I'm only, you know, 48, whatever the these these reasons. Because when you think about a colonoscopy, it's a pain in the ass. Yeah. I did one recently. Of course I was gonna do it, but you're like, you have to go through all these steps. And like we never think it's going to happen to us. Right. Go back to like when Demetrius was healthy, like the right on the cusp before your lives changed. Yeah. Like, why did he go? Like, what happened? Kind of go through that in the shock of the diagnosis.

PSA Results And Sudden Diagnosis

SPEAKER_01 5:20

Yeah. I mean, he obviously was an athlete all of his life and was an avid gym goer. Um, he was healthy for the most part, besides a major sweet tooth. And um it it just really hit one day. I mean, his dad, it's prostate cancer. So his dad has prostate cancer. So he went at 40 for early detection. And the doctor was like, You look great. I can't believe how great your prostate looks, actually. So in his mind, he was free and clear. And um, it actually, not to be TMI, but it was um, you know, through our intimacy that we were noticing changes. And it was so abrupt. I was like, you know, something's going on. And you know So you you knew. Oh, yeah, right away. I mean, after the first time, I was like, well, that was kind of weird, you know. And then it happened again, and I was like, what's going on? And he he got a little defensive and was like, you know, I'm getting older, I'm 45, it's probably my testosterone. I'm like, okay, well, you know, we should probably go get that checked and put it off. And then it happened a third time, and I was like, what are you waiting for? So I really urged him to just go and get blood work and see what was going on. And um, right away, I mean, PSA should be between a zero and a three. Um, his was at 48. So they immediately were like, okay, you either have prostatitis, so we're gonna treat you with antibiotic for two weeks and see what happens. Um, so they did that, and then his numbers had gone up a little bit more. So they scheduled a biopsy. And what they do is it's kind of looks like a walnut, and they take six samples from each side, and all 12 samples came back with cancer. So it just the ball started rolling. And um, you know, with men with this sort of thing, it's a simple blood test. You know, there's no reason not to go get tested and just at least know your baseline, know that you're good. That way, the next time you get your blood work, if it's gone up a couple points, you know to keep an eye on it. Um, but you know, with with him, it was so wild that he had gone at 40 and here he is 45, and it turned out to be stage four. It had already spread to his rectum, and they took 13 lymph nodes when they removed his prostate, and seven came back with cancer. So um we knew we knew right away that we were dealing with something pretty heavy. And um, there's also something called a Gleason score, which measures the strength of the cancer basically, or the aggressiveness. And his was a nine out of ten. So um, you know, we we were very hopeful. We stayed hopeful, but we kind of also had to be realistic. And right away he said, I want to start a nonprofit. You know, if if I'm gonna go through this, I want to walk other guys through this. And it was one of the main things that we would hear when we go in the doctor's office. Um, just men don't like to talk about this. There's the stigma of the intimacy that goes along with it, and just the fact that they don't talk about their health. Women, we start going to the doctor at like 18. Yeah. And that's what we do every year, and we talk about our stuff. Guys aren't like that. And you can't just tell a man at 40 or 45 to start going to the doctor. And yeah.

SPEAKER_03 9:08

I, you know, I was thinking about that too, because I like to harp on. So back to like the colonoscopy or like your breast exam or anything that's preventative, like getting checked for your prostate, if it's just, and I mean just a blood test, that's way better than a colonoscopy. It's way less invasive. Yes. But I think for the man too, like you just said, there's like this very macho testosterone thing. But if there are cancers that you can like figure out how to get ahead of, I think you just gotta like check the box.

SPEAKER_01 9:42

Check the box. Absolutely. Prostate cancer, even when he was diagnosed, people are like, oh my gosh, that's super curable. You guys are good. And it's like well, there's so much nuance, right?

SPEAKER_03 9:51

Like you can say that about a lot of things, like it depends on when you catch it. Exactly. That's what it is. How did he? I just, I mean, I can't imagine one day you're living your life, and then the next day you're grappling with this diagnosis. How do you like how was he able to like sort of digest that and then move? I know the the nonprofit had to be very helpful, but just him and you, like in your house alone and like the kids, how did you live day to day?

Treatment Reality And Family Survival

Building The Brave Men Mission

SPEAKER_01 10:23

I think it was um his personality for one, he had just a lover of life and very positive, glass half full type of guy. And so with the diagnosis of, of course, there was some underlying fear there, but um he never complained one time through the entire process. And I know part of that was for his own mental health, but it was also for mine. I think he was protecting me, he was protecting the kids, the entire process. So um, you know, he he right away just wanted to turn it into something good that he could offer to other people. And he was always a philanthropist, always serving the community. And so this was his way of uh getting men to start talking about their health and use me to help you, you know, help yourselves. And um, you know, it definitely flipped our lives upside down. Uh, we were really careful to, you know, not overshare with the kids. We wanted things to be as normal as possible, like most people I think with cancer diagnosis do, but um very much became about doctor's appointments and um the last year and a half was a lot about hospital stays too. So our youngest was three when he was diagnosed, and you can even tell he was sick for the first couple years, and then um he had a chemo treatment that made him bleed internally. So um we ended up in the ER, obviously, and he the his body was clotting, so it backed up his kidneys, and his kidneys went into failure, and so they had to put nephrostomy tubes through his back into his kidneys to be able to drain urine that way, and he never got rid of those from that point on. So that was New Year's Eve of 2022. Um 2021, I'm sorry, going into 22. So 2022 was a year of emergency room visits and a lot of times up in the middle of the night and going. And thankfully we had the older girls there. So, you know, if we had to go, they were in charge of the little one. Um but Dakota, I mean, she got to the point where she she would wake up, we weren't there. I'm sure there was some separation anxiety, and there was a point where I would wake up in the morning and she would be asleep on the floor next to my bed with her blankies. So um we ended up pitching a little tent in our bedroom and putting a blow-up mattress in there, and she slept there. I mean, it was she just wanted to know that we were close and we were gonna be there when she woke up. So yeah, she um I'm as she's gotten older, I think you know, she'll she'll deal with things a little bit differently as she matures and realizes the permanency of everything and the depth of it. But it's been interesting to see how she handles things. Um she's very stoic, like Dee, and uh she's a very literal person. So if you explain things to her up front, she's more comforted and knowing she she just likes knowledge, yeah. Yeah. So um, I think it's just a matter of knowing how to communicate with your kids, knowing what each one needs, and trying to, you know, keep your family as healthy as possible through a hard time like that. So tell me a little more about Brave Men. So Braveman got its name because everyone kept telling Dee how brave he was. Um, he was actually on the radio and sharing his story that way. You know, he had men calling in. We were going to the doctor's office, and the nurse is saying, you know, I've got men coming in here getting appointments because of you speaking out about this, and you're so brave to talk about this. And so it's been um the name came from that. And moving forward, it was just about creating a community where men felt supported and safe. And um also, you know, educating the community, raising awareness, and offering support and um just you know, getting men to start focusing more on their health.

SPEAKER_03 15:13

What's the major, like the major fundraisers or what do you guys do to support brave men?

SPEAKER_01 15:18

So we've always had a bourbon event every year. Um, that typically is in the fall. Um, I actually just last year started doing a men's fashion runway event, and that was very much in line with Dee and his fashion, his flair for fashion. I remember that. Yeah, he was always known for those velvet suits and things on the news. So um I thought, you know, this would be right up his alley. And so we had a mix of Buckeyes, prostate cancer survivors, and this year, actually, we have one coming up in May. Um, we've got firefighters that are going to be walking in it too. They're exposed to so many chemicals and have a high rate of cancer diagnosis. So we're incorporating um some first responders in with the runway event this year. Um we've got a golf outing in June, and then we're we're planning a walk for September this year, also. Oh, cool. Yeah. Um, we also have a partnership with the James, and we are creating a mobile PSA testing unit.

SPEAKER_03 16:26

Now, now that makes it about as convenient as possible, right? Exactly. You have no excuses.

SPEAKER_01 16:32

Well, that's great. Yeah, I've gone to speak at several different businesses and um hospitals, you know, kind of all over the place. And I will directly ask men, you know, have you been tested? You go get your PSA. And if I talk to them about the mobile unit, they're like, Oh, I'll just wait till you get that up and running. So yeah, we're coming.

Events, Fundraising, And Mobile PSA Testing

SPEAKER_03 16:56

Good. I love that. Now you like m switching gears a little bit, you're an entrepreneur, right? Yes. So tell me about this wellness experience. And like you were you were in health and wellness for like years, right? Yes. What specifically were you in? Like, give me the and still, so as a petition.

SPEAKER_01 17:14

Okay. Um, I started at Kenneth's back in the day at Mill Run back in '98. And I was there for almost five years, and then I branched out to Salon Lofts, the very first location, um, in Dublin, and I'm still there.

SPEAKER_03 17:29

I love that.

SPEAKER_01 17:30

Yeah, that was 2003. So I've been there for a really long time. That's where your skin looks like a baby's ass. Thank you. Damn you.

SPEAKER_03 17:40

Tell me, okay, let's talk about it.

SPEAKER_01 17:41

Well, and I opened a blowout salon in Dillington, the Blow Dry Cafe. Where's that? That is on Henderson and Reed. Um, but I don't own that anymore. Wendy got diagnosed, I had a business partner and I sold my half to her. I just needed to trim down on some things. So yeah.

Career Shift Into Skin And Beauty

SPEAKER_03 18:00

Just can we talk a little bit about skin? Sure. So what do I need to do? Do you get facials? I I do. I'm not as commit. Like, should I be more committed? I feel like you need to do it, what, every four weeks?

SPEAKER_01 18:15

Every four to six. I mean, it just kind of depends on your schedule and your budget. You know, I tell people not to, you know, break themselves over it, but it's definitely one of those maintenance things where over time, I think if you would put two exact two of the exact same people next to each other, and you have this person that got facials every month for 10 years, and the same person that didn't get facials every month for 10 years, you would be able to see a difference.

SPEAKER_03 18:44

Would you do on me, would you do like a um the thing where you like the derma plane skin?

SPEAKER_01 18:50

That's like the little treatment. I like that. Yeah. I it's just it gets rid of that dead, dehydrated skin on the surface. So you have a nice glow, healthy appearance to your skin. It gets rid of the peach fuzz. Yeah. Um, but it also helps the products penetrate down into your skin better too. Do you give a good, like, do you give like a massage? Oh, yeah.

Facials, Dermaplaning, Peels, And Lasers

SPEAKER_03 19:12

Yeah. I may have to come see you. Yes. You should. I need to get more regular with my self-care. Yeah. Because I love a good facial. But I never, it's like everything else. Like it's it's overwhelming. It's like, okay, so you have the the blood thing people do. Yeah. You have the dirt, like the derma plane, you have the chemical peel, you have the late, like I don't know what's right to do, and then I don't want to like ruin my skin because I'm doing too much. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 19:38

Well, and there is such a thing as doing too much. And you don't have to do the same thing all the time. You know, weather changes, so our skin changes. Um, hormones change, so our skin changes. And we you have to kind of cater to what your skin needs in that moment. But um, I think there is such a thing as doing too much.

SPEAKER_03 19:57

Products overload. No, I've seen people out there, their skin looks real thin. Yeah. Where I'm like, it look, I'm like, honey, it looks like you're like doing too much. Yeah. What do you do with like chemical peel laser? Like, what is your regimen for your face? So I want your face.

SPEAKER_01 20:14

I do your skin looks beautiful though. It really does. I'm really good about maintenance with my skin and my skincare, but um, I dermaplane regularly. I do a light, typically I do a sensitive skin chemical peel on myself every four to six weeks. Do you? Mm-hmm. It just it's non-invasive. You don't have any major peeling with it, but it just helps regulate oil production in the skin, dissolves bacteria, yeah, promotes, you know, all sorts of what about a laser? Laser? I've done a halo laser. I did like so bad. Did you do it one time? I did it one time.

SPEAKER_03 20:52

So I did one years ago. I liked it. I did, it was like two different lasers mixed together. BBO. Maybe like frack or something or halo. I don't know. But it was um pretty deep, and then I was swollen. Yeah. Like I looked like a monster. Yeah. But I think I was happy with the results. Yeah.

SPEAKER_00 21:10

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 21:10

That you don't do very often. That's like uh what every five years maybe?

SPEAKER_01 21:16

So I think once you get through your series, I different places say different things. I think a lot of them like you to do a series of three. Yeah. Um, you know, every few months, get three. And then after that, you you only need to come once a year, once every couple years for something like that. Um, like a BBL laser, you can do more frequently. Halo was definitely, I mean, I swelled. I actually I got home and my youngest looked at my face and she said, she said, Mom, your face is making my stomach hurt. No, it's pretty accurate. Yeah. It can get real gnarly. Yeah. It was just on fire for two hours. They They said two hours and literally at the two hour mark, it just it was like the fire went out.

Fitness Habits And Daily Discipline

SPEAKER_03 22:05

I know. Yeah. It's crazy. Uh-huh. What else do you do? Do you work out regularly?

SPEAKER_01 22:09

I work out regularly.

SPEAKER_03 22:10

Where do you work out?

The Highway Crash That Changed Things

SPEAKER_01 22:10

I love to work out. Um, so mostly right now I have my Peloton down in my basement. Yeah. Um, I have always been a gym goer. And then I discovered bar. I got in a in a bad car accident on 270. I went flying through the air. You did? Yes. I like it was my worst, one of my worst nightmares. It was horrible. It was so scary. I was headed back to my loft, COVID. We had been shut down. We were opening the next day. I'm driving down 270 to go get my loft ready for my clients the next day. And this set of tires fell off of a dump truck. And it was one of those moments where I knew I was gonna hit them. Do I swerve or do I just hit them head on? So I hit them head on. And it caught underneath my Jeep, and I just went flying in the air. And I kind of let go and thought, whatever is about to happen is about to happen. And I walked away with no bruising, no cuts, no nothing. Wait, hold on a minute.

SPEAKER_03 23:21

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SPEAKER_01 24:40

So what kind of Jeep? It was a Jeep compass. So there was a top on it. There was a top on it. When I landed, the top buckled. My engine got pushed up into the floorboard and it just started smoking. I landed. Did you leave the car? Well, I sat in it for a second. I called Demetrius. You know what I'm saying? When you flew in the air, did you fly out of the car? Oh no. I was lit, I literally just relaxed my body and I was just up in the air and completely out of anything that I could control. Just relaxed and thought, okay, this let go and let God. Yeah. Were you behind the car? Like you were behind the car that had the No, there were two other cars in front of me that swerved. And so I was- You just were on it. Yeah. Oh my God, like a bad movie. And he just kept moving. I don't think he even knew that the tires fell. Yeah. Oh my God. It was crazy. And then this guy pulls over and he's running down the side of the highway and he says, Holy shit, have you ever seen The Dukes of Hazard? It was just crazy. Yeah. So near-death experience. Like sliding door moments. Yes, absolutely. I love that movie. Yeah. Yeah. Because it's so true. So after that, I had a little bit of discomfort in my back and neck, and um, I was scared to lift heavy for a little bit, and I discovered bar. Have you ever taken a bar class?

SPEAKER_03 26:10

I've done everything.

SPEAKER_01 26:11

I love that. Which bar, which studio? Pure bar at Polaris. I loved that. That really strengthened me and reshaped my body. And then um after D Passed, their schedule didn't work with mine, with you know, having Dakota at home. And um, so I I got a bike, put it down in my basement, I got some weights, and I started working out down there and um with a trainer once a week just to push me a little bit more. But yeah.

SPEAKER_03 26:44

Was Demetrius worried about you like when he after he passed?

How He Built Her Support Army

SPEAKER_01 26:48

Do you know what he did? He built an army for me. He literally strategically picked out people in our lives and said, You help her with this, you check on her for this. It was unbelievable. And I didn't even realize he was doing it until after he passed, and people started sharing with me these conversations that they had had with him. And that's how he lived his life, though. He was very strategic with everything that he did.

SPEAKER_03 27:19

Yeah. It was like little gifts that you were getting, like after he was gone, right? Like conversations that you didn't know took place.

The Handwriting Tattoo And Love Notes

SPEAKER_01 27:26

Yep. And it's fun, I would I would meet strangers that I had never met before that knew him. And they would tell me, you know, I would ask him if he needed anything, what could I do? And and he would just say, just make sure my wife and my kids are okay. Yeah. That was a pattern along the way. So yeah, he's a good one. What a guy. Yeah. Truly. One of the best people I've ever met in my life. And I I was fortunate enough to be married to him. So can you show your tattoo? Oh, yeah. And tell the story about it again.

SPEAKER_03 28:05

Oh. Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 28:06

So that's his handwriting. That's his handwriting.

SPEAKER_03 28:08

I want to get a picture of it real quick so we can put it on.

Signs, Orbs, And Electric Messages

SPEAKER_01 28:11

Um, yeah. So I think it was maybe a week or two after he passed. And um, you know, his phone, we had kept it charged up and um he texted me and said, you know, I hope this isn't weird, but I would love to offer you a free tattoo if there's anything that you want, or tribute to D or anything. And um I had just, I had never had a tattoo. There was nothing that I ever wanted permanently marked on my body. So I kind of passed and said, you know, maybe one day. And then I was cleaning out, going through, you know, paperwork and trying to get stuff put together. And um I found this little notepad. And we would write notes to each other in the morning before we leave. And I just I saw his handwriting and I thought, oh, I wonder if I just did that. Because I I love the word love anyway. And our daughter's middle name is Amore, actually. Like everything's about love in my house. So um, yeah, I called him and he was like, come on in. It took like 10 minutes. Um, but yeah, that's that's my only tattoo. Do you talk to him every day in some way? Yeah, I yeah. I actually I can feel him a lot. My oldest just got married, and we were um back in the back room, and I got this overwhelming feeling. I was like, Lexi, I can feel him. And and she could feel him too. Um there's actually a story too, I'll have to show you. But the Father's Day after he passed, we all wrote messages on balloons and took them out to a field and let them go out into the sky. And my daughter Aubrey was taking a video, and you hear about these orbs and things that you see in in photos, but there was this thing floating around in the video, and it spreads out almost like it gets wings, and it's it's moving around where the balloons are, and then it flies down into me and Dakota. And I started, you know, watching the video, and I put it in slow-mo in reverse, and I was taking screenshots, and there is a photo that looks like his face.

SPEAKER_03 30:43

And I'll show it to you before I'm so like I just and I think before you when before you lose someone, like it's like, oh, whatever. When you lose someone, like I feel like there are signs, there are things, they are there. They're there, they're there. I want to see that. Yeah, I'll definitely show it to you. Um did you guys talk about like, hey, if if I like I'm gonna come or show you something, like you know, pennies and bert, did you guys have that conversation where it's like I'm gonna come back and I'm gonna do X, Y, and Z? Mm-hmm.

Loneliness, Guilt, And Moving Forward

SPEAKER_01 31:13

Nothing, he didn't say anything specific. He just said we were gonna have the biggest angel that we could imagine and that he was gonna mess with us. He was like, Don't you worry, I'm not gone yet. I'll mess with you guys. But but for real, through elect like electricity and things like that, that's really where we see things with him. Um, that same day, that Father's Day, we have our basement has a light at the top of the stairs and a light at the bottom. And the light at the top of the stairs is far enough over the steps where it's uncomfortable to change it. So we just let it be. Uh-huh. And um, the, you know, we just used the the bottom light. And my one daughter, her bedroom was down there, and she was coming up on Father's Day. She's like, Oh, you changed the light bulb. And I was like, No, I didn't. It had been out for at least a couple years. And I said, Is it working? She was like, Yeah, it's on. It was only on that day, just that day. And then we had that encounter. Um, but there's been times where like Coda and I were watching football, an Ohio State game, and the TV kept turning off. And I'm like, Are you kidding me? This is super annoying. Cause she got, you know, get back into the Hulu app and get, you know. So after like the fifth time, I was like, Coda, if this does this again, we're just gonna do something else. Well, it turned, it didn't turn all the way off, but it went out of the app and it went into the Amazon app and started playing a Whitney Houston song that I had played for him in the hospital the last week of his life. And I just sat there and started crying. I told I told Coda, I was like, I'm so glad you're sitting here for this. It's, you know, people might think I'm crazy if I didn't have a witness. So yeah, just things like that for sure.

SPEAKER_03 33:08

What has it been like for you? The struggle I can imagine of moving on with your life without him, just doing normal things, like just living again or laughing again or having to pick up the pieces on your own. Like, do you feel guilt? Do you feel like what I'm sure it's a mixture of things, but that has to be still a thing.

SPEAKER_01 33:33

Yeah. I think um once I got through the real thick of it, I realized one of the hardest things to deal with was, you know, someone's pouring love into you constantly, the way that he was into me, and then it's gone. It's like you miss not being able to say hi to them. You miss, but you miss that love. That's where the empty feeling comes from. You feel this emptiness, and it's because that love isn't being poured into you anymore. Um, so that was really difficult just to even still, you know, um you just feel lonely a lot. And there has been moments of guilt, but not necessarily it's more, it's more guilt and sadness that he doesn't get to experience what I'm experiencing, if that makes sense. I felt more sadness for him that he was gonna have to miss out on everything. And of course, sadness for myself that I don't have him here. But um, yeah, he was just such a good husband, a good dad. I felt sad for my kids that they didn't have that being poured into them anymore. And um, I think there's a weight of feeling like I need to fill his shoes on some level, and it's impossible. Right.

SPEAKER_03 35:07

That has to be a yeah, you know, just to be everything for everyone now, especially for the young one because you're like, okay, it's just me now, and I have to, this is how I can imagine I would feel is you know, we all have strengths and weaknesses, and so clearly he had his, and you, and so now you're like, oh my gosh, it's I'm so a solo show. How am I gonna do all this? And then it's like overwhelmed.

SPEAKER_01 35:29

Yeah. And how would he, how would he handle this?

SPEAKER_03 35:33

Do you does she ask a lot of questions still? And like, do you find that to be like hard to answer, or is it like more of an open dialogue? Because I know like, you know, like when we were young or like in previous generations, you don't talk about when somebody dies, it's like we don't talk about. Yeah. So does she do you guys have open dialogue?

SPEAKER_01 35:53

All the time. Yeah. All the time from the get-go. Um, I will tell you, that was the hardest conversation I've ever had in my life, was when he and I decided to tell her what was actually happening. Um, it was two weeks before he passed when we, you know, were just facing the reality of it. And he was in the hospital, and we just sat her down and told her what was happening. Very stoic, tears running down her face, but she was six at the time. So, you know, what does a six-year-old really know about death? And um, you know, we were just kind of letting her know that he was gonna pass away and he was gonna be up in heaven, and we'd be able to talk to him, but he's not gonna be able to talk to us. And um it was confusing for her, but she kind of got up and said, Okay, and can I go play? Now she, you know, so we called his mom in and she took her down to the playroom. And Dee was just like, Wow, we did it. We uh raised an amazing child. She handled that so well. Um but after he passed, she was looking for him. It was just like, well, where is he? I what's he doing? She wanted to know what he was doing, who he was with, where he was. And um I think it was really hard for me to hear her talk about death as much as she did because you want your kids to be so innocent and not have to worry and think about things like that. But she talked so much about how long will it be till I get to go to heaven and see daddy. And that's not something as a parent that you want to hear your child talking about. Um, I mean, she didn't realize what she's meaning it in in a negative way. She just wanted to be with her dad. So um, you know, we have a lot of conversations like that. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:03

And um those are hard because we don't know the answers. You know, it's like I'm like anytime my son has asked me questions about heaven, yeah, I feel so stumped and so dumb. I'm just like, I have no good answers for him because I'm I have the same question.

SPEAKER_01 38:18

Yeah. I just tell her we're all together. It's all loving and it's whatever we want it to be, you know.

SPEAKER_03 38:28

How were you able, going back to when you guys had that conversation with her, did the mama bear instinct just come in where you're like, I'm not gonna have a breakdown right now because I have a responsibility?

SPEAKER_00 38:37

Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 38:38

Like I just need to like make, I need to be able to like not break down. Yeah, have absolute meltdown right now.

Panic Attacks, Therapy, And Speaking Out

SPEAKER_01 38:46

Yeah. Um, yeah, I just kind of sat there. I was ready and prepared for questions. After she left, I had my breakdown. Um, and there were a lot of mornings. I had to call my mother-in-law to come over those last few weeks because I couldn't even get her ready for school. I was just having panic attacks, which I had never experienced before. And I couldn't get off the floor. I would be on my bedroom closet floor sobbing, like, you know, just this feeling of a total lack of control, helplessness. And it is very humbling.

SPEAKER_00 39:26

Oh.

SPEAKER_01 39:27

It is very humbling. I tell people a lot, you know, your life when you're married and you have kids, you kind of feel like you have goals and you have everything figured out. And it feels like you're putting pieces of a puzzle together. And then someone just comes in and messes everything up, and you're trying to put the pieces back together, but the pieces are completely different now. So it's just a hard thing to wrap your mind around, starting all the way over again. And um, you know, it's just like trying to think about getting to know someone all over again and those types of things. It's just, it's a lot. It's a lot. It's not what you mean.

SPEAKER_03 40:13

I guess it's not what you signed up for, but we all that's life, right? Life is like we don't, it's what happens when you think you're making plans. It's just like it's like, nope.

SPEAKER_01 40:25

We're not doing that. And if you'd asked me or told me 10 years ago I'd be running a nonprofit for prostate cancer, I probably would have what? Yeah, yeah, told you you were crazy. How's your how is his mom? Good. So his biological mom lives in Florida, and then he has his stepmom up here in Columbus. Um, everyone has dealt with it differently. It's been a really interesting experience watching, watching that. Um his dad is still living with prostate cancer and very much has survivor guilt. Um, yeah. So he has to deal with that. And um his mom down in Florida, she's just, it's just sad, you know. A lot of times when we get together, it's a reminder that he's not there. So especially in the beginning, because we were all so close before we we vacationed together and we were together all the time. But when we first started getting together again without him, it was just this big cry session. And I'm like, I have got to take a break and get myself together and figure out how I'm gonna move through all of this without being sad constantly. Um, that was the goal.

SPEAKER_00 41:46

Yeah.

SPEAKER_01 41:47

Let's just not be sad all the time. And I have kids, I have to get up. I went to therapy. My therapist was like, I mean, you're working, you're working out, you're getting out of bed, you know, you're doing everything you need to do. So she let me free. She's like, You're you're pretty healthy. You're graduated. Yeah. It's like, you know, if you need to come back. But it's just one of those things that you can't no one can fix it for you. You just have to learn to live with it and move through each day or each obstacle. Um, at first, going and speaking and telling our story out loud was very difficult for me to get through without crying and breaking down. But it's very therapeutic. Yeah. It really is. It's helpful.

SPEAKER_03 42:36

Yeah. And I think what you're doing is amazing with brave men. I think, you know, he was an incredible human. I I didn't know him, obviously. I just saw him from afar, and he was kind of like joy personified. Yes. He made you smile. Yeah. He was real handsome and like his outfits.

SPEAKER_01 42:50

He just he stood out. Yeah, he did. He walked into a room and it was like he's here. Yeah. Yeah. Well, you're a brave woman. Thank you. Yeah. I appreciate it. Yeah. We're kind of trying to branch out with brave men like that to support, you know, spouses and kids. There's brave women out there, there's brave kids, there's, you know, there's room for all of us, and we all need support. Um, yeah. Okay. It's been, it's been an interesting journey, that's for sure.

SPEAKER_03 43:24

Well, I'm really humbled and honored that you came and, you know, shared this vulnerable side of your life. Thank you. You didn't have to have me. Thank you for doing it. I'm I'm really just happy that you did.

SPEAKER_01 43:36

I appreciate you so much.

Lighthearted Wrap And Final Ask

SPEAKER_03 43:38

Let's switch gears back to which celebrity you look like, real quick before we close out. Okay. Because I thought I had it. I was gonna say Michelle Pfeiffer, but there's something. I've never had Michelle Pfeiffer before. Tiffany Ambert Thiessen, but there's someone else that I can't believe that like no one else anyone's ever told you.

SPEAKER_01 44:02

I mean, I used to get like Rachel McAdams every now and then. It's a rough life for you, isn't it?

SPEAKER_03 44:09

I mean, it's either Rachel McAdams, Tiffany Emberthy. I mean, I don't know.

SPEAKER_01 44:16

I don't know. I look at them and I'm like, really? I don't know.

unknown 44:20

I love it.

SPEAKER_01 44:21

Yeah. Yeah. Who do people tell you that you look like? No one. We don't even want to go there.

SPEAKER_03 44:27

God only knows. I would never even want to know. Stop. No, I would never want to know. Stop.

SPEAKER_01 44:34

No, I think we need to figure out yours too. Maybe. Because we all have them, don't we? And animals.

SPEAKER_03 44:38

What animal we would be. Oh yeah. You'd be a bunny.

unknown 44:41

A bunny.

SPEAKER_03 44:42

Cute little bunny with your little button nose and your eyes. Oh yeah, you'd be a bunny. I'd be like an ostrich. No, you wouldn't. Oh yeah, for sure. Especially with my legs and stuff. Like I'm an ostrich. You're a bunny. I mean, you do have long legs. But they're like knobby.

SPEAKER_01 44:58

No.

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Oh yeah, they are. They're knobby. They're like, like they have like little knobby, I have like knobby knees. Like when you see, you wouldn't notice. Like, you know how we dissect ourselves. Oh, yeah. But oh my god, my my knees are knobby, and so like I'm like an ostrich, but you're like a bunny. That's where if we were in the animal kingdom together, we'd be hanging out and I'd be an ostrich and you'd be like so funny. Oh my god, I love it. Oh, that's hilarious. All right, if you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And until next time, go check out Bravemen.

SPEAKER_01 45:30

Yes.

SPEAKER_03 45:31

Is it Bravemen.org?

SPEAKER_01 45:32

Bravemen.com.

SPEAKER_03 45:34

Oh, is it? Yes. Bravemen.com. And keep moving, baby.