Donatos CEO Kevin King on Leading With Heart.

Kevin King is the CEO of Donatos, but the first thing you should probably know about him is that he really loves his wife.

Leslie has challenged him, sharpened him, expanded his taste in music, and spent more than three decades helping him become the person and leader he is today. So naturally, Keri calls her in the middle of the interview.

What follows is a very human conversation about marriage, parenting, family, leadership, and running one of Columbus’s most recognizable brands.

Kevin explains how he taught his daughter to handle a bully, why he wants his adult children to have relationships with him that do not depend on their mother, and what he has learned about staying calm enough to solve the actual problem.

That same approach shapes the way he leads Donatos through changing customer expectations, third-party delivery, automation, and AI. Kevin is not interested in using technology to remove people from hospitality. He wants to use it to eliminate the work people hate so they can spend more time taking care of customers.

This is a conversation about pizza, people, marriage, consistency, and why a good leader sometimes has to make sure everyone can see his heart.

Transcript

Sponsor Message From Avena

Keri Croft 0:01

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Google Fear And AI Search

Keri Croft 1:51

Because I live in fear. Here's what I live in fear of, and you'll appreciate this because you can do the same thing with you. You can go to the Google machine and I can see all of the like highlights, you know, how you feel about leadership, all of the main 270 highway shit. Yeah, you can Google, you can chat, you can claw.

Kevin King 2:14

And when we clauded clauded you, that's what it said.

Keri Croft 2:19

Stop it.

Kevin King 2:19

Seriously, that you go, you know, just numbers and little facts are not gonna cut it with Carrie. You got she wants the real life stuff.

Keri Croft 2:29

I'm not in Claude.

Kevin King 2:30

Well, we put you in.

Keri Croft 2:32

You really did? Are you being serious? Yes. And it said that about me. Uh-huh. They're so smart.

Kevin King 2:36

Uh-huh. It's smart. Unbelievable.

Keri Croft 2:39

So, you know, like with Cameron, I was like, I, as great as it would be to have someone like Cameron or someone like you, not interested if we can't learn something new for the people. Yeah. Like Kevin, we don't want the. So the first thing I'm going to ask you today, I want you to take off the Donato CEO. We'll put it on here and there. But then we're going to take it off. We're just going to put the Kev hat on. And we're going to get to know you as a man, a father, and a dad, and just a you know, person walking through the world. Kevin King, welcome to the Carrie Croft show.

Kevin King 3:12

Thank you, Carrie. Thrilled to be here. It's going

Donatos Partnership And Comedy Content

Kevin King 3:14

to be a blast.

Keri Croft 3:14

My cop runneth over because I am an employee of Donato's now.

Kevin King 3:18

I hear that.

Keri Croft 3:19

And before we get started, I do want to raise and I also want to have a C-level title. So I'm thinking that you could fast track me, get through the red tape. But I do think chief influence officer would be a very sophisticated title. What do you think?

Kevin King 3:34

I think that's just a new take on CIO because usually that's information. But this is all about influence.

Keri Croft 3:40

Absolutely. So could you take that to your board when you guys do all the important things?

Kevin King 3:43

We will have that. Yep. We'll do that.

Keri Croft 3:45

Now, have you have you seen though? And I'm being I want to show you this first. Have you seen like the bit that I did with my friend on Donatos?

Kevin King 3:54

No.

Keri Croft 3:54

Okay. I want to show it to you because I think it's genius. And we want to keep doing more of this, but I want to get your take on it. So when Donatos approached me or Shipyard, you know, I was like, you know, this could be a really great partnership. I love their community aspect. Jane's always seemed really cool. Can't wait to meet her. I just felt like it could be a really good thing.

Kevin King 4:13

She said she's the real badass.

Keri Croft 4:15

She actually is. I'll share. She can she can share that title any day. She's I can't wait to meet her.

Kevin King 4:20

Okay. And she can't wait to meet you.

Keri Croft 4:21

I think we're gonna have a real good situation. For sure. So I was like, how can I weave in Donatos in a way that really like not only brings them into the conversation, but like makes it fun, but like on brand for me. So I have this guy, Trimpy, who's a friend of mine, and we do like just funny shit together. And I was like, hey, can you come in and just do a bit? Like just pretend like you're coming in to talk about something random. He came in to talk about like his calves, like this thing about the CAP Institute. So then we parlayed it into Donatos and we got into this fight on Instagram, and people were asking me, like, is this real or is it fake? Okay, so I want you to look at it, I want you to watch it. It's creative, but it's elevated from just like a typical thing you would do. Like I still do all the other stuff too, but I love the storylines and kind of weaving in and making it next level.

Kevin King 5:11

I I loved it. Do you approve?

Keri Croft 5:12

It's Kevin approved.

Kevin King 5:13

Yeah, I it's very approved. Okay, you know, it was so natural too. More than a hundred, because that's what it is.

Keri Croft 5:19

Right.

Kevin King 5:19

You know, it's not a hundred, it's more than a hundred.

Keri Croft 5:22

You guys go above and beyond. You really, really do.

Kevin King 5:25

Yeah.

Keri Croft 5:26

So, okay, so you wrote something in your you wrote a couple things, and what I love about this intake format, it just gives me so much information. Even when somebody doesn't fill it out completely.

Kevin King 5:36

I thought I was gonna knock that out in like two minutes. Uh-huh. Uh-uh.

Keri Croft 5:39

No. And it's in and I actually got I for the first time I got feedback today from someone. They're like, hey, they were saying that's a little bit long. I'm like, no, we're keeping it long because this is how you fare it. Like this is how you figure it out. And so I loved, I loved how forthcoming and like how much you were like, my wife basically is the shit. And the in the way you wrote it, it wasn't like trying to be anything. It was just like you could feel that this is a true partner and that she truly is like your guidepost. Like she's your person.

Kevin King 6:11

Sure.

Keri Croft 6:12

And her name's Leslie.

Kevin King 6:13

Her name's Leslie.

How Kevin Met Leslie

Keri Croft 6:14

Hello, Leslie. Let's talk about Leslie.

Kevin King 6:16

Let's talk about her.

Keri Croft 6:17

Like, what at what tell me like what's she like? Where did you meet? How'd you know she was the one? Take us through memory lane.

Kevin King 6:24

Oh, so we met at Xeno's. And we met in 1991 at Xeno's. And I don't think it's changed at all since then. And we have several friends who met their future long-term spouse at Xeno's. Uh, you know, they're one. And so it was just a Friday night. I was in there with some of my friends. She was with uh a friend of hers, and um the two friends I was with knew her friend, and you know, it just kind of all happened. How'd I know? I don't know how I knew that that's hard. But what I will say is we share a lot of things that are in common, but we have some key differences in who we are, and I think she makes me a better person. And um, you know, she'll challenge me like nobody else. She yells at, she says, I never yell at anybody but you. Um, and that's I think comes from a position of love, right? So she can she can yell at me because she loves me. And I know that scene sounds weird, but it's it's really true. So um that she she challenges, she's uh I think I talked to her about her in the intake form really about music. I mean, she totally opened my eyes about music and opened my tastes and what I like and why should I like, and she'll still make fun of some CDs I had in my CD collection when we met.

Keri Croft 7:50

So like what were those? Like what were the like what were a couple that she'd be like, oh my God, just get rid of that.

Kevin King 7:56

Yeah, you had a Madonna CD. Uh she said, I think that came up recently.

Keri Croft 8:03

Were you getting down to La Islabo Nicole?

Kevin King 8:05

I don't even I don't know if it was one of those, you know. Back in the day, we used to get those join this record club and you get 27 CDs for I don't know how I got it, but it was like who doesn't love Madonna, dude. What?

Keri Croft 8:17

Who doesn't love Madonna? She's she's an idea.

Kevin King 8:20

She was a 80s, 90s alternative, certainly 90s alternative um now. Um, but she had great musical taste and really broad. Uh she also has the most incredible memory for details and things. That's certainly where we compliment. She'll compliment each other. Uh we used to joke back when you used to read the Sunday paper, between the two of us, we read every page, but none of the same.

Keri Croft 8:47

Yeah.

Kevin King 8:48

And uh, but she has memories for conversations and meeting people and can be so specific. And sometimes those are the things that that I miss. And she's she's great about that. She's uh she's great. She's also fiercely loyal. So when I say I said she's a badass, uh, she is so loyal to her friends, her family, and to causes and things. And you know, she'll just she'll tell it like it is.

Keri Croft 9:18

Um what's a song, like a 90s, 2000s song, that would just totally remind you of her? Like what would be one of the anthems that you're like, oh, that's Leslie?

Kevin King 9:27

Um because you said I'll tell Elvis Costello is her absolute favorite. So if any Elvis Costello ever comes on song, first of all, I I now know all of them. I I would immediately think of her. Yeah. So that's probably the easiest, is just to say anything Elvis, because not a lot of people talk about Elvis Costello, you know. And um, you know, he's been around forever. We saw him at Mershawn a few months ago. Um, and we've seen him in every city we've lived in, we've seen him in cities we don't live in, and uh, so he's he's he's great. So that's probably one band that will always remind me of her. But there's a lot of other ones. Um, and um we our youngest son, he's 24. Um, he's very musical too, musical also, um, and shares the passion for music. And um, you know, Leslie's listening to Green Day driving Ethan around in a car seat. He's four years old. And, you know, he says, Mom, turn on American Idiot and don't turn it down when the bad words come. So here she is, uh in her 30s, maybe even close to 40, driving around in a in her white minivan with her four or five-year-old son in the backseat. She's listening to Green Day, and he knows who Green Day is. And today, Green Day is one of her favorites.

Keri Croft 10:56

My kind of girl.

Kevin King 10:57

Her favorites and his favorites.

Keri Croft 10:58

So

Leslie Joins And Parenting Under Pressure

Keri Croft 10:59

I love that. Well, let's try to give her a call. And you know what? Um, so you have to text her. Okay. And you have to say, hey, I don't want you to tell her all the details. Just say, hey, this number is gonna call you. You have to pick it up. Do you like how I'm bossing you around already, Kevin? I mean, this is just how you know, this is how it goes. All of a sudden, it's just like, do this, do that. It's just I can't help it.

Kevin King 11:22

I can't really hear anything through here.

Keri Croft 11:23

You can't?

Kevin King 11:24

No.

Keri Croft 11:24

Oh, you can't hear her? Oh, Leslie, how are you? It's Carrie. Hold on. Your husband's having technical difficulties. Let me, I'm gonna hang up with you. I'm gonna call you right back when I get him settled because he can't hear you. So just answer my call, okay? Yeah. And we're back, Leslie. We're I apologize for the technical difficulties. We've got Kevin on the line here.

Kevin King 11:46

Yes, I'm here.

Keri Croft 11:47

So when he filled out his intake form, he said so many nice things about you, but they were like actually, they felt very genuine. And so we started the podcast just basically talking about you, and he called you a badass. And I was like, okay, this is my kindred spirit. I'm like, why don't we just call her and see what she's up to? Did you finish Pilates?

Leslie King 12:06

Yes, I just had iced tea with a friend and just got in the car.

Keri Croft 12:12

Oh, that sounds like my kind of morning or afternoon now. I love that. So, okay, so Kevin, when we were we're not gonna tell you what he said, you have to wait till the episode drops. But do you have like what give me one thing about Kevin that's like your favorite part of him that you're like, oh my gosh, I just think this is the best part of his personality.

Leslie King 12:35

I will tell you this, and this I have loved for 31 years. Our oldest is 31. How he talks to our children and how he explains things to them and he lays things out in a very businesslike manner, and he doesn't let emotion rule a conversation. So, for example, when our oldest was in second grade, she was getting bullied at school, and Kevin explained that this kid is playing a game, and this and our daughter was like, That is not a nice game. Kevin says, No, it's not a nice game. But he said to our daughter, whose name is Laura, he said, But I'm gonna teach you how to play the game, and I'm gonna teach you how to win. And then he comes into our bedroom and he's like, Okay, look, at breakfast the night at breakfast tomorrow morning, I want you to go over this, you know, so that she knows what to do when she gets to school, because he was greeting her every morning and calling her a name. And he said, This is how you're gonna handle it. And so I did, you know, went over it, walked to the bus stop, you know, go over it. And meanwhile, our kindergartner, remember Kevin, was listening to every word, every word. He never missed anything. And um, later that day, the bus came and she flew off the bus into my arms. I did it, mommy, I did it. And she said that when she said this thing to him, what Kevin told her to say, he said, Who told you to say that? She said, My daddy did. He taught me how to play your game and he taught me how to win. I was like, okay, well, I told them, shouldn't have said that part. That's okay. Oh, I know. It was the greatest thing ever.

Keri Croft 15:02

And what did you tell her to say?

Kevin King 15:05

So she was calling him, she was calling her names.

Keri Croft 15:07

Yeah.

Kevin King 15:08

And I you just play it back. Yeah. And uh and don't react and don't don't make a reaction because that's what the game was all about. Was you know, all he was trying to do was be cool. Yeah, it was to make her go ballistic and upset.

Leslie King 15:23

And uh and it worked because she's reactionary, and then nothing happened ever again.

Kevin King 15:29

Um that was it, one time. And you know, she Leslie said these things, but uh these things just they they're those are the easiest things for me when it comes to our kids, and um just trying to break down a big problem for them. One of them I had recently was um our daughter never really wanted to use connections to get anywhere. She thought that was really coming from a place of privilege, and I had to change and cheating. Yeah, like that's cheating and that's unfair to others. She has this real fairness streak. And I had to change the conversation for her. And it was really all about it was about a job. And I had to paint the picture from the hiring person's perspective and show her why you having a connection isn't helping you, it's actually helping the hiring manager. And I said, you know, when you when you hire somebody, you take a big risk. And that risk is, did you ask all the right questions? Are you a good judge of character? And the person who's hiring wants to do everything to minimize the risk. So they use connections. They use, wow, this person knows someone I know. So, and I changed the narrative for her, and all of a sudden it just clicked to her, and that made total sense. And it then wasn't about privilege for her, and it was why somebody would use connections to hire somebody, all of a sudden made sense to her. And um, those are the kinds of things that Leslie's talking about that I've been able to kind of really on the fly or in the moment be able to like, okay, well, here's the problem and here's how we're gonna solve it.

Keri Croft 17:23

So it's so important though, and I think that a lot of parents going through it right now in the thick of it should take note of this because you know this, you guys, when you're a parent, you're so emotional. You know, everything is attached to these kids, your every your whole, you know, their your your heart's like outside of your body, and so your instinct as a parent is to be, you know, this little shit is talking about, and then or you know, there's an easy thing to oh, don't worry about it, just forget it.

Leslie King 17:48

Like, and I've said those words, Carrie, just to tell you this little shit.

Keri Croft 17:52

Oh, for sure, because you want you the mama bear comes out, right? But like acknowledging the fear her feelings, like this is a big deal in your world, and here's how we solve for it. You're giving her a tool that she can then put in her toolbox and use over and over. I mean, what a great thing to be given to your kids, you know, and it it sounds so simple, but it's not.

Kevin King 18:16

Because you get caught in the emotion. And you you have to you have to break it down. Um, and you know, what's going on here? And then what is the strategy to get myself out? And um, and I I think that that is a key lesson in life, it's a key lesson in business, it's a key lesson in relationships and in general. And um you gotta you gotta step back for a second and reassess. Otherwise you just you're yeah blabbing at each other.

Keri Croft 18:51

So Leslie, is he a hard guy to rattle? Pretty hard, yeah. So like when you're wanting to get a reaction out of him, like sometimes you're like, God, could you just like why are you so even keeled and pragmatic?

Leslie King 19:06

So I I always say to him, how come I get to how come I have to get mad?

Keri Croft 19:12

Yeah.

Leslie King 19:12

To get a reaction out of you. He goes, I have no idea.

Kevin King 19:21

Yeah, we talked, we talked about Leslie a minute ago about she's fiercely loyal.

Keri Croft 19:25

Yeah.

Kevin King 19:26

And uh the one thing that I I try to sometimes solve the problem when what she just wants me to do is just stand up for her. And so that that took 30 plus years of our relationship to kind of start to make sense of, and it's probably not my first instinct. And she just wants somebody to stand up for her like she stands up for her friends and her family.

Keri Croft 19:52

Yeah. And unfortunately, sometimes that doesn't, that's not reciprocated the way that you think it should be. You know, somebody said something recently, it was probably on TikTok because I'm addicted to TikTok. But it was like the way they approach that is they will ask the person, like, are you right now in this moment, are you looking for a solution? Are you looking for an ear? Like, are you looking for someone to listen? I think we we don't tee that up and really frame up like what the person needs or wants. We just kind of go in with what our agenda is, you know. And sometimes, especially us women, they we just want to vent and we want you to listen and we want you to like, you know, do that what we tell you to do, basically.

Kevin King 20:32

And that's not a natural instinct for me.

Keri Croft 20:34

Is is Kevin an emotional guy? No, like does he cry easily?

Leslie King 20:42

Yes.

Keri Croft 20:43

Well, I could see him even when you were talking about the the bullying thing.

Leslie King 20:47

He tears up about family and our children very easily. Well, it was a really otherwise, no.

Keri Croft 20:54

It was a sweet moment because I'm sitting here and all of a sudden you were telling that story, and I was watching him listening, and I could see him like taking a trip down memory lane, you know, and and remembering and kind of just you know, being you could tell what kind of family guy you are and you and how you you have like a heart of God. I could see it right there. It's like on the surface. You're you guys are lucky to all have each other. Yeah. Okay, so what does he do that is so annoying? Like the habit that is like, I'm sure there's more than one, but let's just tee one like one habit where you're like, this is the thing that we constantly. Why are we on this gerbil wheel of your habit? And you could you could probably name what it is too.

Kevin King 21:37

I can name a recent one, but let's see what she says.

Leslie King 21:41

Doesn't check his pockets for the laundry. So I mean like ever. And so last week, remember, Kevin, I said, Well, here's a drill bit that was all, you know, it's all clean. And then a couple weeks ago, I texted him once again, his AirPods.

Keri Croft 22:08

Oh, I do that all the time.

Leslie King 22:10

I texted him a picture and he goes, Oh, thank God, they were filthy. And I just said, I said, why? With you know, like one W, four H's, and 30 lies. And he said, And it made me laugh so hard. He said, I have no reasonable explanation. Seriously, I was standing in our very tiny laundry closet and I laughed my ass off. Because when I get mad, and it wasn't like I was mad, mad. I was just so frustrated because it's come at least once a month, you know? And um but when he says something like that, and then I laugh, then all of a sudden I'm fine.

Keri Croft 23:00

Oh, for sure, yeah. Was that what you were gonna say, or were you gonna say something different kind of thing?

Kevin King 23:04

I don't know. I think I sometimes I point and I point in front of her face and she just hates.

Leslie King 23:10

Oh my gosh, this is terrible thing.

Kevin King 23:12

And it it happened the other day, and she just kind of she's like, she went off on it. Oh, that's great. You know, we've been together, you know, we're gonna be 34 years uh married, so known each other 35, 36 years. Uh, there are some things I can do that annoy her. It's not hard.

Keri Croft 23:32

Listen, marriage is But you know what?

Leslie King 23:37

His his I and I told this to him. I read this whole thing on genetics, and people who um let's say a a couple gives or someone gives their baby up for adoption and then they meet later, and the adopted, you know, the biological baby that has been reunited with this family shares some of these same phys physical characteristics. You know, like they they rub their ear the same way. And I read this whole article um a couple months ago about this, and it's just really funny, this thing that is literally passed down through genes in a family. And I said, you know, your sister and your brother, your brother Jim and your mom, they all rub their nose in the same way, all three of them. And I said, and you and your brother Brian and your dad have this wild gesticulation which comes flying right in front of someone's face. And I said, And you have almost hit me so many times. And it's always when I'm driving.

Kevin King 24:43

That's the one I'm thinking.

Leslie King 24:46

Yeah, and this hand will this left arm, he'll be in the passenger seat. This left arm will come in front of me, and he's like, or whatever.

Keri Croft 24:53

And I'm like, You had me at gesticulation. You had me at gesticulation. I mean, I haven't heard a thing since I heard that word. Five syllable words get me rotted. I feel like we could hang out.

Kevin King 25:06

Yeah, you could.

Keri Croft 25:07

I totally feel like we should hang out. I mean, I I feel like we probably have seen each other. I need to like now. I'm gonna be going on the are you on Instagram?

Kevin King 25:14

Yes, she is. You are?

Keri Croft 25:15

Yeah, what's your handle?

Leslie King 25:16

Um I don't know. I don't post.

Keri Croft 25:19

Oh, you just go on there and look. Yeah, I'm a lurker. Oh, I mean, most people I call it perving. That's my oh wait, Leslie King. Wait, is it Leslie King XO?

Leslie King 25:31

Or wait, that's no, it's wildcat girl. I'm a Kentucky Wildcat. Wildcat girl. That's amazing.

Keri Croft 25:41

I really like her. You take it about the lecture, but I really like her now. Okay, I'm gonna follow you right now. So before we go with you, we could even have you guys in on a whole episode.

Marriage Habits That Actually Matter

Keri Croft 25:52

A whole like I love digging into marriage, giving advice to like people who are getting married, like just the dynamics of a relationship, even one that's strong and healthy. Like there are things, right? It's like you learn to fight fair, you learn the things about each other, you figure out how to fit into the grooves, right? It's like there's no magic thing, it's work. It's work. So, Leslie, any any tips out there for people who are like, you know, just getting on the uh the highway of marriage and all of it. Like how what if what's the big thing that has kept you guys solid and flourishing?

Leslie King 26:34

The love. I got a lot of love for him.

Kevin King 26:38

Be friends.

Leslie King 26:41

Oh, yeah. He is my best friend.

Keri Croft 26:45

I love that. You guys just made my whole day, just so you know. Seriously, this is so this is like so great. And Leslie, thank you for being a good sport.

Leslie King 26:53

And he doesn't care when I go, he doesn't care when I travel with my girlfriends.

Keri Croft 26:57

Oh, that's huge.

Leslie King 26:58

He knows that's super important to me.

Keri Croft 27:00

That's huge. And he secretly, we secretly want our alone time. And that's okay. Like, that's okay to be like, yeah, I get, but but I think there's I I know there's there's just these. I what I wish, and I I've always tried to be super open about my marriage and just really give the honest stuff. I just wish people were more honest about like it's okay for you to be like, you know what, two days alone sounds real nice right now. And then when you come back together, it's even better. You know, it's like, hell yeah, go with your girlfriends, and then good. Yeah, people are weird about that stuff.

Kevin King 27:35

Weird, you know?

Keri Croft 27:36

Yeah. Kevin, weird. Why can't everyone be cool like us? Let's I don't know.

Leslie King 27:44

I have asked that for years.

Keri Croft 27:46

Can you do you think you'd like to come back on like in the fall with Kevin and we can have like a fun, like get you on on air? Air? You're on half air now. You're kind of like a cameo. You see what's gonna happen? People are gonna hear this and they're gonna be like, oh my gosh, we want more of you. We want more. Uh-huh. Yep.

Kevin King 28:02

That's what's gonna happen.

Keri Croft 28:03

You didn't realize what was gonna happen to you today. Well, here we go. We can make that hey, I've got man eater media over here. I can I can prop up a show for you in two seconds, honey.

Leslie King 28:14

Yeah, awesome. I've always had a lot to say, haven't I?

Keri Croft 28:17

Good.

Kevin King 28:17

She's got a lot to say.

Keri Croft 28:18

Well, I appreciate you um joining the call. I'm gonna hang up now and talk to your husband about, you know, all kinds of things like leadership and uh the pillars of you know, all the serious shit we're gonna get into. We're gonna go into some deep waters now. But thank you, my new friend.

Kevin King 28:33

Bye, Les.

Keri Croft 28:36

Bye, bye. Bye. We're gonna choose 12 out of 10, dude. Thanks for doing that. You guys are so great. Like I was expecting you to be cool, but I wasn't really expecting this. I'm very excited. Stress and inflammation

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Keri Croft 28:53

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Parents Influence And A Promise To Kids

Keri Croft 30:11

So clearly, you are a family guy, you are a good person. You can just see it. Like I knew it right from the intake form. Takes a lot to like have that type of foundation and the way you are as a dad and a husband. And so your parents were clearly very huge influences. Sure. And just showed you how to be a hard worker, a good human being. I mean, so were you equally as close to both of them, or did you have a special relationship with one over the other?

Kevin King 30:41

Well, um, you know, growing up, so I was born in the in the mid-60s, and growing up during that period of time, uh, male and female roles were were different than they are today. And um my dad, um, he was the provider in the family. And, you know, maybe a little bit on the discipline side, but my mom was there with us day in and day out. And um so when you say were you close, I was probably closer to my mother because she was around all the time and my dad worked. And um so a little different. And, you know, you know, my dad is a huge influence in my life, but so is my mother in lots of ways. And um there, you know, you can look back and see, and I'm probably much more like my father in physical traits and um just a lot of things in my work life and and and a lot of those things. But my mom was a great balance. And you know, there's an emotional, my mom was super emotional, and um, she had a great spirit and a, you know, and a um and a huge personality, um, but she was super emotional. Um, and so that what that's probably one of the reasons I'm when I say that I'm there's a lot of me that it is my dad, but you know, I took a lot of my mom as well. And so that's what your parents do. Um and you and you also have been able to um see their their strengths and their weaknesses. And um one of the one of the weaknesses that I reflected on about my dad was his relationship with us. Um he relied on my mom to be the conduit to us, both when we were living in the house, but especially when we had left. You know, it wasn't the era we didn't have cell phones. Um, so my mom would be the one who called us. And I knew um when we had kids that it was my job to develop relationships with my kids that were going to connect us for the rest of our lives, whatever those were. And that I could not rely on Leslie to be the one who only connected with our kids because uh my mom died, and my dad did not have connections to us, and so he at age 65, he had to learn to develop connections with not only us, but with friends, because he relied on my mom to do that totally, and so that's something you know you learn, you watch that was a weakness of my dad's and a strength of my mom's. Um, and it worked great for them for a lot of time. But when she was gone, there was a hole. And it was it so I I knew it was my job to develop things that I can talk to my kids about for the rest of our lives. Um, and um, you know, and they're not all the same, right? Each kid is different. So what am I gonna connect with them on? And what what will they text me about that happens in their life or you know, their sporting a sporting team, a sporting event, or just something that happens in the world, what are those connections gonna be? So I take that because that's what I learned by watching my parents, um, both their strengths and their weaknesses.

Keri Croft 34:25

And is your dad still alive?

Kevin King 34:27

Yeah.

Keri Croft 34:27

And then how is that now?

Kevin King 34:29

Well, he has dementia now. So uh he lives l is in town, and I I get to take care of him. You know, he lives in a a community, but I'm the only one of uh us who are close. So I get to see him regularly. Um, but you know, his his memory is gone. So that's gotta be hard.

Keri Croft 34:52

Is that hard for you?

Kevin King 34:53

It it's hard and not hard at the same time. He would not want the person I knew would not want to live the way he lives today. So um knowing that he doesn't really know is actually a little more comforting than say he was had a physical challenge but was all there mentally, you know. Yeah, having a mental challenge, you don't really know. Um and he in in his dementia, I've seen people who get angry, but he did not. He got softer, more loving, more tender, um, which um I'm happy for because living what he's living, he's not living in anger, he's not living in frustration, which he could have easily gotten to. Yeah.

Caring For A Dad With Dementia

Keri Croft 35:48

But um, so I bet I would bet you're a really good leader, and I bet the people at Donatos really like you a lot.

Kevin King 35:54

I hope so.

Keri Croft 35:55

I because I feel like you just have the you just have that that stillness, but yet stern. Like people probably know when you're steering the ship that they're on a good trajectory.

Kevin King 36:06

Leader, I have to make sure my heart shows. Um you know, sometimes people say that that is held back, and that's some of being even and keeping emotion out of it. But people want some emotion in their leaders, and so when I think about what what I have to do as a leader, I do have to show my heart.

Keri Croft 36:30

Yeah.

Kevin King 36:30

Um, the people who know me know it's there, but I need to make sure that everybody knows it's there. Yeah. Um, because I can be focused on a project or a task or numbers. Um, and some of those things come really easy to me. Um, but if I can show if they know that, but I can also show my heart, then I can get both sides of them.

Keri Croft 36:53

Yeah. And I feel like Donato's just has such a a great heart and soul.

Kevin King 36:57

It does. So that that part is a little easier. Um, you know, Jane and Jim um have done such a great job instilling that in who we are and what we do at Donato's, um that it it's not hard to grab onto.

Donatos Values And The Three Hs

Keri Croft 37:14

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit about that because on the surface, it's a pizza company, right? But I think it's important for people to understand. Not, I mean, we all know the most people know the Columbus roots, which is great. So I'm like going to Donato's first because like why not support local, even though you're all over now. Yeah. But the intentional philanthropy, the actual doing good because you want to and because it's at the core of who you are, is really important for people to understand. You know, when they see the the brand Donatos, like the the three H's housing, hunger and health, hunger and health. Uh, and clearly Jane's attachment to the Reeb Center. I mean, what pick one? Like there's like so much there that you guys are you're a pizza company, but you're all about people, right?

Kevin King 37:58

What what's really fascinating is um Jim started with the concept that I can bring values to work. And he had t been told uh, you know, Jim started Donato's, he was 19 years old. Um, and but his mentors and people, as he was a young business owner and kind of really figuring out who he was, kept telling him, you, you know, this is a dog eat dog world, you gotta kill them before they kill you. And Jim wanted to prove that you could run a business and keep your values and make it successful. And actually, Jane has done a great job bringing that to life in causes, community, and people. Uh so they've been in a really good partnership between the two of them. But Jim talked about values when nobody talked about values. Um, he talked about values in the 80s and the 90s. Um and uh, you know, a lot of people weren't talking about things like love in a business in 1990. Um, and a lot of people didn't talk about how important values like integrity and honesty uh are. Um so Jim has always been wanting to show that you can bring your values with you and you can grow and build successful businesses. And he's done that. And Jane has done a great job of connecting that um with our team, our people, um, but also the community. Um and the Reeb Center was a great way for her to do it. And our foundation now that you mentioned, Housing, Hunger, and Health, is a great way for us to bring it to life for both our associates um and our community. Um we do a volunteer day around one of those three pillars, and um it brings all of our associates together, and it's a really meaningful day. Um, we do one with Habitat for Humanity. We basically build playhouses for kids and we design them, and our team takes such interest. We get learn a little bit about the kid and kid or kids that we're building this playhouse for, and we theme them like they're you should see these houses. They're amazing. And you know, we do post them on social and stuff like that. But um, you know, this year I worked on a house and the kid was all into Spider-Man, and this house was so good. I mean, um, our CFO actually said, we're donating these houses to these kids. What we should really do to raise money for habitat is to sell these houses because they're so nice. Now, we love giving them to families who wouldn't have anything so cool, but um, you know, it's it's a great event, it's a great way to give back, and it's a great way to bring our team together and bring our mission and values to life.

DoorDash Disruption And Winning On Experience

Keri Croft 40:55

Yeah. So let's talk a little bit of like CEO worries, uh, aspirations. Like what what are you what's the big topic du jour? Like I'm sure that there is always competition. I like what's happening with like Uber Eats, DoorDash, like what are you guys like what's the big pain point right now? I'm sure there's more than one, but like what's the like what do you think?

Kevin King 41:20

So there's a lot of pain points in business. Um peep uh Uber Eats or DoorDash, um, probably one of the single biggest disruptions to the pizza category since pizza started delivering, you know, whenever that was, 40s or 50s, because the pizza companies pretty much own home delivery. You know, outside of New York City, uh the only thing, you know, if you know a couple's had a bad day at work and they're like, I'm not cooking tonight, we need food. Well, we're gonna order food in. It's pizza. That's about all there was. Uh people joke about Chinese, but I don't know anyone who lives in Columbus, Ohio who got Chinese food delivered. Um but it was pizza. And now today, everybody delivers, right? Because of DoorDash. And uh so there's there's a lot more competition on that side. And the pizza categories we've had to we've had to adjust and and we have to change. Um so um in a disruption, you're either part of the disruption or you're the disrupted.

Keri Croft 42:24

Yeah.

Kevin King 42:24

Um, so that that's something I tried to uh talk to our team about is well, we got to figure out how we're part of the disruption and not gonna be disrupted. Uh so it's been challenging there. Um and uh the the the world keeps changing. And you know, if there's anything about the age that we live in in this the pace of change is just uh it is so different. And you kind of go from one to the next. You're like, oh, it's first it's it's COVID, then it was this, then it was that, and everything, it it just changes. That's the way information flows today. It's so fast, and the world

The Donatos System And 12 Minutes

Kevin King 43:02

changes. Um but one of the things that I wanted us to be uh focused on is Donato's has always done a fantastic job on its product quality, and that comes from Jim Grody. And it came from Jim wanting to make every pizza exactly the same. Because in Jim's world, you can't be high quality if you're not consistent. If I can't rely on you, then it's not quality. So um he built an operating system to put uh over a hundred pieces of pepperoni on a large pizza, and it's easy to execute. It's actually harder not to follow the system than it is to follow the system.

Keri Croft 43:45

I was gonna ask about that. What is the system?

Kevin King 43:47

The system is just really detailed. So we build pizzas on scales. So um we we we weigh every ingredient that goes on the pizza, and it's not to uh lower food costs. Or it it's to make it whether I order today on Monday and Joe made my pizza and I order uh Wednesday from a different restaurant and Sally made my pizza, they're gonna be exactly the same. And if they're not, then you can't be high quality. Um so and I think there's so much truth to that. But what our focus is on now is making sure our service matches our pizza. Um and how do we make sure the experience, which is so much more important today, uh, to uh to Gen Z, Gen Y, um, and Gen Alpha, they're about experience. And so we've got to give them a great experience. And that's how we're gonna win, even though everybody delivers, is we're gonna we're gonna give you a great experience. So we've always given you a great pizza. Now we want to make sure that the experience matches the the quality and the consistency of the the pizza. One of the things that we did starting at the beginning of the year was really focus on our pickup times. So uh most of our business is picked up. People come to our restaurant, pick up the pizza, and take it home. Um, and during COVID, we'd kind of gotten into, oh, it'll be ready in 15 to 20 minutes. But I talked about that operating system that we have. It actually, it your pizza can easily be ready in eight or nine minutes. But we were telling people 15 to 20. Um, so we started focusing it on it at the beginning of the year and really dialed in on 12 minutes uh and telling people your pizza is going to be ready in 12 minutes. And it has had a it has had a huge impact on our quality scores, our service scores, um, and it's showing up in our sales. So um there are ways that we can win, and that is leveraging this fantastic operating system that we have, but to give you great service. Um, you know, really, it's gonna be ready in 12 minutes? Um, and and we're gonna take that to the next level. We've got some things we're working on right now that are gonna uh better communicate to our guests uh about their pizza on its journey. And uh it's just gonna reinforce how fast we can actually be.

Keri Croft 46:22

Yeah.

Kevin King 46:22

Um, you know, it as a mom or as somebody who's responsible for feeding the family, if you know, oh, I just 12 minutes, it my pizza's gonna be ready. Uh we were out in a store on Tuesday and um a business called up. They ordered 10 pizzas and we had it to them in about 25 minutes. So we made 10 pizzas. We we just uh Jane and I were actually out in the restaurants. We were there and the order came in, but we have the ability to execute that way. And who can who can feed that many people in that short a period of time? So it's a huge advantage. And then if we just add some friendliness and then some consistency, uh, you know, today uh a lot of times as a customer, you don't even get greeted. You kind of get you're expected to know what to do, and they just kind of look at you and you throw out what you're think you're supposed to say. And so we want to bring some humanity back into our service as well. So we're working on that right now as well. And so that's our biggest focus right now is how do we make sure the quality of our experience equals the quality of our pizza?

Long Tenure And Culture You Can Feel

Keri Croft 47:35

Yeah. I just ordered it the other day, obviously. And I was waiting, I was like, you know, because it came actually from a Donato's delivery guy, and I was chatting it up with him, letting him know that I'm, you know, I was already saying I was a chief influencer officer, and he was laughing. And then uh I think his name's Luke, and he said, I've been with them, I've been with Donato's for he's like at the store right there on um Northwest. And he said something like, did he want to say 20? It was like a long time that he's been at Donato's, and I was like, that's that says a lot.

Kevin King 48:08

So we have a number of associates on our team who have been with Donato's over 20 years. Uh, we were out celebrating some people. Three of the people we were celebrating were 35 years with Donatos. Um one is one was a delivery driver in Hilliard, um, who this it was his 35th anniversary, and he's delivered pizzas for us for 35 years. Wow. Um, and he all in Hilliard. So he knows his customers, he sees their names. That's awesome. He knows uh what their dog's names are. I uh he just yeah um he's just got such wealth of experience and knowledge, and we we have people on our team that have been around that long. I mean, we have uh, you know, a few people in our office over 45 years with Donatos. Um, you know, of course we have new people, um, but we have such tenure and such experience and such dedication with people. Um, and I know we can deliver a fantastic experience um and and truly differentiate ourselves, not just with great food, but great great service too.

Keri Croft 49:21

So

Fitness Habits And How Kevin Learns

Keri Croft 49:22

let's uh talk a little bit about you. I want to know some things about just you as Kevin King. You're a pretty fit guy. I mean, I'm not like surprised, I wasn't sure what to expect, but like you're pretty fit. Are you what are you doing there? So your wife's doing you gotta keep up with Leslie.

Kevin King 49:39

I do. So we do we actually she's got me. I'm going to Pilates once a week with her. Okay. She goes six, seven times a week uh to Pilates, and uh it's been great for her. Um, and I have become religious about walking. Um, so I walk four miles every day. I do a lot of it on a treadmill, um, but I do walk outside too. And um that that's one of the things I've committed to really in the last year is just be religious about walking.

Keri Croft 50:08

Do you have your AirPods in?

Kevin King 50:10

Uh I'm either watching TV or listening to a podcast or uh something.

Keri Croft 50:15

What would be your show or podcast of choice? Now it's the Carrie Croft show, clearly. Since I'm an employee, it's only appropriate.

Kevin King 50:22

Uh I I like a lot of different things. I uh when I read and I do a lot of audiobooks, um, I'm I'm learning. That that's how I learn. My wife reads to relax. So she she r reads lots of uh fiction and I don't. I read mostly nonfiction. So business books, biographies, history, um th things like that. So I spent a lot of my time there.

Keri Croft 50:48

Does she cook for you?

Kevin King 50:49

Yes.

Keri Croft 50:50

Do you guys eat healthy?

Kevin King 50:51

We eat pretty healthy. Not not crazy, but yeah.

Keri Croft 50:55

Like what did you have for breakfast?

Kevin King 50:57

I had a smoothie for breakfast.

Keri Croft 50:58

Did you make it?

Kevin King 50:59

No. I I spent seven years at Smoothie King. I I think it is a fantastic brand and I love it, and I go every day for breakfast.

Keri Croft 51:07

Where's Smoothie King?

Kevin King 51:08

It's right on Fifth Avenue, right around the corner.

Keri Croft 51:10

I didn't realize there was one here, like right around here.

Kevin King 51:12

Oh, it's it's at Fifth and Northwest.

Keri Croft 51:14

Huh.

Kevin King 51:15

Yeah.

Keri Croft 51:15

That's what you do every morning for breakfast.

Kevin King 51:17

That's my breakfast. I don't drink coffee. I have a smoothie every day.

Keri Croft 51:20

What do you frequent in UA? Like, where do you go when you go somewhere in UA?

Kevin King 51:24

We love Lupo. It's right by our house. I love Lupo. It's right right there. Um we like Piata. Yeah. Uh we we go there. Um we we go to Donato's regularly. It's shocking, I know. How weird is that.

Keri Croft 51:39

You have to.

Kevin King 51:40

Um, but we love a lot of the UA things or Grandview. Grandview is so awesome. Yeah, it is. We go to the Grandview Cafe. Um so a lot of a lot of places

Why He Skips Golf

Kevin King 51:52

around here.

Keri Croft 51:52

What about hobbies? You golf?

Kevin King 51:54

I don't golf. Um, you know, it's funny, golf. My wife has actually tried to get me to golf, and and she's like, we should golf together. And I'm like, I I'm 62 years old. I I don't want to spend five hours at something I suck at, to be honest. And uh that that's why I've avoided golf. Um when our kids were younger, we lived in in Portland, Oregon, and so we skied, and I loved that. We would ski all winter. And um so I spent a lot of time doing that since we moved back to Ohio. I haven't skied as much, but I would love to get back into that.

Keri Croft 52:33

I've got my I'm trying to get my kids into ski like my son is gonna be eight, and he and I have gone. My husband's got real bad, like he can't be on skis, but I've gone with a family friend. So Dane's been up on skis. I feel like it's really important just to give them that sort of ability. Like I always wished that I was able to, whether they want it or not, like that he'll have it, you know. And then Kyle's my daughter, she'll be three. Um, I'm gonna get her up on skis.

Kevin King 52:59

We we moved to Portland, our kids were 10, 8, and 4, and we got them skiing. And um they, you know, I think it's one of those things that is uh a life skill, a great thing to do. Um, it's beautiful, you're out in nature, you're you're enjoying winter. Mountains are beautiful. There's just there's something about it that's so relaxing that that I just love.

Keri Croft 53:25

Yeah. Well, I promise not to stalk you now.

Kevin King 53:28

Okay. Well, you can.

Keri Croft 53:29

Uh well, you know, I've been known to be a stalker, I'm not sure. Um, so last well, is there anything we have not touched on that you'd leave here and be like, we missed this? Because sometimes that'll happen and someone's like, God, I wish I would have said, you know, I just want to give you like that last opportunity.

Using AI Without Replacing People

Kevin King 53:46

Well let me just talk about one thing in people. Yeah. Um, because we're in the age, and it's a conversation, and and this is another conversation I've had with my kids. Um and we're in this AI world, and there's a lot of fear. And there's a lot of fear that AI is gonna um replace all the jobs. And we talk about AI and we talk about automation at Donato's. But when when I think of automation and I think of AI is I think of how to leverage it so that we can focus our people's time, effort, and energy on interacting with guests as opposed to eliminating people. You know, a hospitality business cannot live or thrive without people. And people are always gonna be a huge part of our Donatos business, no matter what. But if we can take away the things they don't really love doing, then I think that's where we're gonna automate or use AI. So we um we always answered phones in restaurants till 2022. And the reality is answering the telephone in a pizza restaurant is not a great experience. And um your oldest is eight, so you may not uh get this yet, but um my kids do not answer the phone, they don't like to talk on the phone, the phone is just not a part of their life, and we really struggled to get associates to answer telephones in the restaurants, and so it's not a great place to answer the phone, and they clearly don't want to do it. Um, so we took the phones out of the restaurants, and we now have an AI phone system. Um, and you know, not everybody loves it, to be honest, but um a lot of people do really like it. And uh it has changed the environment in the restaurant because it was a struggle to get them to answer the phones. And uh the restaurants are so much more calm now. And again, now we can focus on that interaction when you are face-to-face with a guest that we can hopefully talk to you. We could hopefully call you by your name and hopefully learn a little bit about you and smile and say thank you. And so people, this is the hospitality business, is a people business, it will always be. And automation and artificial intelligence, how do we leverage them to make to get the most out of our people? And that's the the message I want both our team to understand is we're not looking at automation and uh AI as a way to get rid of people. We're in the hospitality business, we're here to make people's lives better.

Keri Croft 56:38

Yeah.

Kevin King 56:38

Um, and we're only gonna do that with people, and so um we're gonna look to automate things or use AI on things that people don't love to do or people aren't very good at, so that we can focus on our guests. And that's that's the thing because people are like, well, what's gonna happen with AI? And I don't trust it, and you know, how are people gonna live? And um, you know, uh but uh there's so much it can do, but we have to remember it's about connection, it's about people, it's how we connect with our people, it's how we uh make their job easier. Um and so we have a lot of initiatives on the service side. The first part of the initiative was how can we make it easier to execute in the restaurant so that we can be friendlier? If we execute better, then it's way easier to be friendly.

Keri Croft 57:34

Yeah. And I mean, just like look throughout time, anything that comes along that's new, uh change is the scariest thing for human beings. That and like speaking in public in front of people, right? Or maybe bungee jumping. Or on a podcast. Well, right, right. But change is always pushed against, and there's always a scarcity mindset with the the group. And I think it's the people who look at it and say, okay, how are we able to evolve as human beings, right? Without all of this stuff that came through. And now it's AI. This is the moment, and it's huge and it's disruptive. Back to your point earlier. But what am I gonna do about it? Am I going to recoil and get really upset about it and scared? Or am I gonna look at this as an opportunity and say, okay, maybe depending on what job you're doing, where you're at in the world, maybe life as you know it is going to change, and maybe that is scary. But but then what is this opening up to you in other ways that wouldn't be possible? I mean, I I I just for me, living in that that mindset of just always being super scared and what are we gonna do? How are we? It's not going away.

Kevin King 58:43

Yeah.

Keri Croft 58:44

So you got to build the mental athleticism, as I like to call it.

Kevin King 58:47

And it's it's some of the conversation we had earlier. It's how I approach a problem is um how do I take advantage of this?

Keri Croft 58:56

Yes.

Kevin King 58:56

Right? So it is here. AI is here, and so much of it is gonna be so wonderful. Are there gonna be some negatives? Absolutely. With anything there is, but how how can I, in my personal life, in my uh emotional relationship life with my family, or in my work life, how can I use AI to either free me up or give me better information or do things that I don't want to do so that I can do the things that I do want to do? Yeah. And uh it is it's a little bit scary right now that people are talking about you know, fully autonomous things. And um, but we we gotta we just gotta bring it back to it doesn't replace people, and AI is not gonna have a relationship and people are strive for connection. We learned that in COVID.

Keri Croft 59:49

I mean, Kevin, there are people out there having relationships with their AI. You know that, right? Yeah. It's a weird thing. So I mean there are there is a subset of people that are getting a little weird with AI, but they're gonna get weird with anything, you know. They might be the people that had the blow up doll situation. But now they're just now they're just transitioning into into AI.

Kevin King 1:00:07

Yeah. They're full videos and they talk back to them.

Keri Croft 1:00:09

What so I have a I really need to know is there a cubicle available near your office that I can have?

The Chief Influencer Officer Joke

Kevin King 1:00:18

It's an auto's we have a few cubes available.

Keri Croft 1:00:21

And is it too soon to get my business cards uh printed?

Kevin King 1:00:26

I don't know, Carrie. Do people use business cards anymore? I mean, we just really share contact information on the phones.

Keri Croft 1:00:31

They maybe not, but now that I have this title, I'm feeling as if I really want people to know. And I think me and people are going analog now, so I feel like people might bring the business card. So I would like to actually have a Donato's CIO in parentheses chief influencer officer cards that I could pass out.

Kevin King 1:00:52

Okay.

Keri Croft 1:00:53

Will you guys reimburse that?

Kevin King 1:00:54

Uh we'll print them for you.

Keri Croft 1:00:56

You will print them for me. Okay. That that sounds great. Because I really think that you and I could chop it up if I had a cube and we could really make some make some.

Kevin King 1:01:04

Well, you're gonna bring music into the office because I, you know, we didn't really talk about what what your pump-up song is.

Music Talk And Concert Memories

Keri Croft 1:01:10

Oh, yeah. So we got we got to see you just brought it all the way back. There you go. So my pump-up song, I have many of them. Um, it would probably be well, it could be like God Smack when I'm working, like lift and heavy, corn, uh-huh, um, Limp Biscuit.

Kevin King 1:01:29

Oh, that's a favorite of my wife's Limp Biscuit. Stop it. Yeah.

Keri Croft 1:01:32

Stop it. I told you she's got the best musical taste. 311 is like my I am in love with them. Um and then I mean, I just I I right now I'm really into country, which is funny. When the summertime comes, like I'm listening to Zach Bryan on my computer when I'm working, like the channel, the Zach Bryan channel, or Miranda Lambert channel. So I'm I mean, I'm I just love music. Music is my you love concerts? Yeah, I do love concerts.

Kevin King 1:02:00

What was the last concert you went to?

Keri Croft 1:02:02

I think it was Zach Bryan.

Kevin King 1:02:03

Okay.

Keri Croft 1:02:03

Um I went to Zach Bryan. Oh, or was it 311? I think I went to Red Rocks front row, 311.

Kevin King 1:02:10

Terrible place to have to watch a concert, isn't it? Oh my god, it wasn't it beautiful.

Keri Croft 1:02:13

It was unbelievable. And like being down there with them in the front.

Kevin King 1:02:16

Guess who I saw there?

Keri Croft 1:02:17

Who?

Kevin King 1:02:18

Counting Crows.

Keri Croft 1:02:19

Oh, Counting Crows. Yeah. So are you like, what's your favorite Counting Crows song? Do you have one?

Kevin King 1:02:26

Oh, I have many.

Keri Croft 1:02:27

Like, what's one of them?

Kevin King 1:02:29

Um, Rain King. First of all, my name's in the song title. Right, true. But it's such a great song.

Keri Croft 1:02:36

So I have to go with colorblind.

Kevin King 1:02:38

Love colorblind. That's so that's reaching in there because not a lot of people know colorblind.

Keri Croft 1:02:43

Coffee black and egg white.

Kevin King 1:02:44

Yeah.

Keri Croft 1:02:45

Pull me out from inside.

Kevin King 1:02:48

One of Leslie's favorite lines uh is all oyster and no pearls. Oh, yeah. Um, so from Long December.

Keri Croft 1:02:56

Yeah, yeah, yeah. Oh, I like Long December. Smell of hospitals and winter. Yeah. I mean, that's a sound. All oysters and no pearls. Yeah, yeah, yeah. Talked a little while about the we all want the pearls. Are you kidding me? Um, so who else though? You you only gave me counting crows. Like who would be who were you listening to in college? That's kind of what I want to know too.

Kevin King 1:03:16

I was more kind of early 80s rock, so ACDC and those kinds of things when I was in college.

Keri Croft 1:03:23

Were you a Simon and Garfunkel guy?

Kevin King 1:03:25

No.

Keri Croft 1:03:25

I love Simon and Garfunkel.

Kevin King 1:03:27

Yeah. So um, but I was a Springsteen. Oh, yeah. Springsteen was big in college for me. And I love Springsteen. Uh, and I didn't see him uh for a long time. I didn't see him until maybe 10 or 15 years ago. Um, and his concerts are just legendary. Right.

Keri Croft 1:03:48

And now I've not seen him.

Kevin King 1:03:49

You haven't? No. Oh, you know, I I'll laugh. He was at Nationwide Arena, and that show was rescheduled a couple times. Uh, once he had COVID, once he had some other uh illness and stuff. So I I I'm kind of joking, but I'm sure a few people died between the time uh that he they bought the tickets and he did.

Keri Croft 1:04:10

Yeah.

Kevin King 1:04:10

And it was so funny. I'm pretty sure afterwards, every chiropractor in the city of Columbus was booked for several days because of the people in their 60s and 70s and 80s who were dancing, jamming out, like living their best damn lives. They were.

Keri Croft 1:04:28

I love that.

Kevin King 1:04:29

Now it was a great show.

Keri Croft 1:04:30

When you guys

Wine Picks And Final Sendoff

Keri Croft 1:04:31

like when you drink a cocktail, it's like what's your drink of choice?

Kevin King 1:04:34

I drink wine mostly.

Keri Croft 1:04:36

Red, white, what is it?

Kevin King 1:04:37

I I am a fan of both. My wife only likes white, so if we're o opening a bottle at home, then I'll drink white with her. Um, but I do like red wine. I'm a Pinot Noir guy.

Keri Croft 1:04:49

Um Have you had a Pinot Noir that's white, that's clear?

Kevin King 1:04:53

No. So White Burgundy, though, which is essentially the same.

Keri Croft 1:04:57

Oh, is that what it is? So there's Pinot Noir that um I just had from the wine bistro.

Kevin King 1:05:02

Uh-huh.

Keri Croft 1:05:02

And it's like the only bottle they have that's like called Pinot Noir, but it's like they do something to the grape where it's like white.

Kevin King 1:05:08

Wow.

Keri Croft 1:05:08

It's really good. I can't remember the name of it, but like when you and me and your wife at our spot that's gonna be our spot, then we're gonna go and we're gonna have that bottle because it's really good.

Kevin King 1:05:20

And we'll have to hijack the music list there and play play the favorites.

Keri Croft 1:05:24

For sure. I'll bring my speaker. We'll sit outside.

Kevin King 1:05:28

Awesome. Jamming on Lane Avenue.

Keri Croft 1:05:31

We that could be we need to be jamming more on Lane Avenue. Yeah, you know?

Kevin King 1:05:35

Yeah, we need a little better outdoor space in Upper Arlington.

Keri Croft 1:05:39

I could not agree. That's a whole different episode. It's a whole I could do an entire episode on what we could do in the bubble.

Kevin King 1:05:52

In the bubble.

Keri Croft 1:05:52

In the bubble.

Kevin King 1:05:53

Well, we're about into bubble week. So coming up on the 4th of July. And I was shocked there were no chairs out on Northwest Bloom.

Keri Croft 1:06:01

I think they've done, I think they probably put a kiosh on that because people were putting chairs out in February pretty much.

Kevin King 1:06:06

Pretty much.

Keri Croft 1:06:07

Like, we really like these fireworks. We really like the parade. Like it's like, wow.

Kevin King 1:06:13

Yeah.

Keri Croft 1:06:13

You know, I love it. Well, this has just been so much fun.

Kevin King 1:06:17

Thank you. That was fun for me.

Keri Croft 1:06:18

You're really great. And I can't wait to work together. Okay, I can't wait to hear.

Kevin King 1:06:22

I'll bring your business cards over. I'll drop them off on the way home.

Keri Croft 1:06:25

Yes, Kevin, make it snappy. I need this. I need this now. I need my business cards now.

Kevin King 1:06:30

Okay, we'll we'll work on that.

Keri Croft 1:06:31

Oh my God. If you're still out there following your girl, follow me on YouTube, Spotify, Apple, or wherever you get your podcast. And until next time, go order a Donato's pizza edge to edge, baby, and keep moving.

Kevin King 1:06:42

Thank you, Carrie.